I have to say I completely agree with Kergillian's post, people have to support their LGS. Personally I find it quite easy because the few stores I attend have very competitive prices, and the employees are great. I understand where some of your are coming from though, if your LGS massively overcharges or are just rude then don't bother. But if you attend their tournaments weekly using decks and cards you bought online, sooner than later they will close down. Once the gaming stores start closing down there will be no way to spread the word on CCG's, TCG's etc... I've been hooked onto games and gotten people hooked by just talking to them at my local gaming store.

How often do you think kids or people will say to themselves, let me surf the net to see if theirs any new CCG's out?? Most if not all games I've played have spread from word of mouth, even this game I first read about in previews and talked about it with the owner of the comic shop I attend. Mind you I've gotten all the recent info from great websites such as this one, but when it comes to keeping the game alive you need a good place to play locally. Otherwise you'll end up playing only with a few friends, the competition might get stale and you'll quit the game, at that point maybe you might end up surfing the net for a new CCG, since your LGS will be closed.

My thoughts on this can be found here http://www.vsrealms.com/forum/articl...ticle&artid=84

I will try to keep as civil a tone here as possible so stay with me here. I managed a comic book/ game store in the early 90’s in Norman. I now work as the part time guy at a store in Tulsa.

Comic and game stores run the smallest of margins. In my neck of the woods the stores that have been around the longest do not do deep discounts. Where I work at now they give 10% of any box of cards if you buy them by the box. Not much when you consider how much cheaper they are online. The owner is a shrewd businessman and worked for years in the oil industry. We run a very clean and professional shop. Every night we vacuum. We dust and make the displays presentable. We are all knowledge about most of the products and are courteous. The plan at this shop is to provide a better service because we can not compete on cost with the online people.

Here is where my tone has to change

If you think paying 5 dollars to play in a tournament is paying your fare share then you are sadly mistaken! It cost real money to pay rent and utilities. Remember for every 4 dollar pack of cards you see in that store the owner has invested 2 dollars in stock that he hopes someone will buy. If you can not buy your stuff at the store then don’t bother showing up! Here is an idea for you why don’t you put up flyers throughout the neighborhood inviting people to come over to your house and play card games. Show them all the cheap places to buy there cards and let them trash your house. Now remember just let them come over any time during the day.

Now that is ridicules. Try going a couple months without stepping foot in the local game store and see how much fun your cheap cards are.

Respectfully
Bryan

PS I know that some people do not have a local game store around or the one they have is terrible. I will not shop at several places around town because of the poor service so I am in no way suggesting that people should buy local if there only option is an abusive store. That said if you want to play in a store buy your cards there.

The stores I used to own, we would charge a 50% or less markup making our packs cheaper than most other retail places. On pre-orders, I would try to match the Internet pricing as close as possible. Kids would come in and tell me what website they saw it on and I would tell them how much I could go down and we would agree on some price.

As for singles, I always try to charge low book. The profit margin is better on singles but I didn't sell too many of them. Supplies were also a good source of revenue but we always remained reasonable on our pricing.

But... the only reason I could do that was because I had another job so the store was merely a hobby and I could afford to make such a low profit margin. For people who actually own stores as their profession, they may not be able to make those kind of deals or adjust their pricing as much.

So please keep this in mind when you buy online and when you shop locally.

I know as a consumer you always want the best deal, but you also want a place where you can meet and play other people and that's what you should consider that extra that you pay locally as... gaming support... hehe.

CSI, you play out of Champoins? I play MechWarrior up there occasionally. I live in Lawrencville so that drive up 285 is just to tough for me. T and T baby, Ventrue Mall, buy all of my product there if they carry it. While I do know the owner now, I developed my friendship by shopping in his store. He concentrates his buisness on CCGS and Clix line and keeps TONS of singles on hand. He charges under MSRP on packs, and mid Scrye on singles. What I am really trying to say is, I believe he does everything he can to help himself make a profit, by supplying items at a reasonable price. I do not even look online at pricing so I guess I do not know what I am missing. I understand most people do not have a vendor in their area like T and T. I just feel like since I do, I should do all I can to make sure he sticks around. If you do not buy from the venue you play at, don't be shocked see them close or stop running tournaments one day. It's a tough buisness, if the gamers stop giving the venues will stop giving.

Pint...I look forward to playing at T and T sometime when I am up there permantly in June, as for now I am only there every other weekend, I drive into town and play at Champions on Friday and the rest of the weekend is set aside for me and my fiance. But I will look you up in June, and maybe we can play a game of VS together.

bryankia....I don't want you to think that I wish to take advantage of my local store, I mearly stated that I can not afford the mark up the two stores in my area (not champions) put on heroclix cases and singles. I do plan to talk to the guy at champions to see if he is going to carry VS, and what I could purchase a case from him for, and if I ever consider buying a case of HC again (not likely) I would go there first as well. But I cannot afford to pay an extra $100-150 just to keep my local store in business. An extra $20, no problem.

I'm sorry to say this, but I disagree. My responsibility as a consumer, who also has financial responsibilities is to get the product I want for the lowest cost possible. I have rent, a family, and bills, so even online shopping isn't something I do often but when I do have extra money I'm not gonna spend more money for less product when I can get more product for less money. Why buy a million boosters when I can buy the character/ I want on ebay for less money? I can get what I want for a fraction of what I would have spent on dozens of boosters.

I'm sorry I have to worry about my pocket, Demos don't interest me cause I learn the game on my own, and read the faqs, the forums etc.

I mean I prefer to buy from a store but gaming in general is just to expensive a hobby, maybe instead of placing the blame on us for LOGICALLY going where the lower priced product is, maybe the companies should try to lower the price of their games and boosters.

I agree, this is an expensive hobby, and trust me, I don't make a lot of money and I have a family and a lot of bills too, hell I work for a public university, the money isn't just gushing in... You're not just a consumer, you're a gamer, and it's not the same as someone buying a TV or soap, the decisions we make as Gaming and Comic consumers effect the industry as a whole and effect the longevity of the products we love.

The point is that if we don't support local stores then they'll cease to exist and so will 99% of the CCGs, Comics, minatures games etc... Online retailers don't support the games, they're just trying to make a quick buck and without the retailers to support our niche hobbies there won't be enough profit in it for the companies to make it in the first place. Not only that but Upperdeck and the like are not making huge profit margins either, it's not like card games are THAT lucrative, we're not talking about Video Games or the Insurance industry... Online retailers are not friends of the gamer or the consumer, they only focus on $$$ and couldn't care less if CCGs and Comics completely disappear, they'll just find something else to bilk.

I still don't see it as the consumer's responsibility, The companies themselves should try lowering costs, and the stores should give me an incentive for buying there as opposed to online. Also you fail to realize convenience, some people don't live near a game shop or comic shop. So why should that person spend transportation costs (public transportation is 2 dollars a ride here in NYC) or gas money if they can save money buying on-line.

One store by me opens some of their boosters so that consumers can buy the singles they want, which to me is an incentive so I go there when I can

Also why don't a lot of these store open an on-line store I know a lot of Brick and mortar who have recently opened some form of on-line presence to help move merchandise, get with the times, and stop blaming the consumer (gamers are also consumers sorry that's just how it is) for doing what comes natural. Maximizing your purchase by going for the lower cost item.

Your arguement is faulty, if Upperdeck reduces costs, then the box "Cost" goes down and all it does is that the Internet retailers sell for 5% above that and it's the same thing, just a different number (instead they charge $40 and the Shop charges $60)... The only way for a shop to reduce their prices is to get rid of their overhead, meaning closing their store. Even if they start selling online, their overhead is still way above that of a online retailer... Brick and mortar stores just can't compete... And YES we are Consumers, but if you care about our hobbies being around in the future you'd stop being a penny wise and a pound foolish.

evilspider:

1. Convenience:
Conceded. If you don't live close enough to a store, then online buying is your only choice. In this case, you wouldn't be visiting the store often to game either.

2. Singles:
Most stores sell singles. So by buying them you are doing what Kergi is asking. I know people like to get deals off of Ebay but when you buy cards in store you know what you are getting and don't have to be worried about card quality.

3. Opening online stores:
Many shops do that. But they can't really compete because if they sell for prices that match other online-only stores, customers would want the same price in-store. Some stores do Internet only pricing to address this issue but there is still that stigma of "Why do you sell it cheaper online?" from the in-store customer.

Look... no one is 'blaming' the consumer. All we are trying to say is if you can support a local game store by buying some product there... then do it. If you don't want to.... then don't. But I don't think it's bad for us to ask others to help their local games stores out is it?

This isn't a charity this is life, and this is business. It's the stores and the companies responsibility to bring us in, not mine, mines is to my budget. I pointed out an example of one store doing something for the consumer and it increased business. I go there to see what singles I can buy, lots of stores buy and sell singles of cards for the more popular CCGs as an alternative to buying boosters. The stores should make me want to come in, I shouldn't coming out of some charitable obligation.

Erik I know most stores offer singles, I made that point as a way for a store to compete, but some stores do not.

Also don't misunderstand me, I prefer buying at the store, I take issue at the articles attitude that it's some how the gamers fault for stores losing money.

I buy all my comics at a store, I buy books at the store because I hate waiting for something to come in the mail when for a few more bucks I can have it now, and read it, or enjoy it on the ride home but my gaming hobby is done on-line and that's how it will stay. I can get my singles for a cheaper price, I can get what I want when I want it and that's that.

Even the stores that have heroclix singles they only open a few boxes when the new expansion hits,

and the only card singles are for yu gi oh and magic I play DBZ ccg, what am I supposed to do? buy singles on ebay that's what.

I can get any single I want when I want it, and for a fair price. I might spend 5 bucks for one figure, but in the long run I saved money since one booster of heroclix is 7 dollars and I only get 4 FIGURES (remember when wizkids gave us 5 per booster?) and if I get a crappy double I only got 3 figures for 7 dollars. screw that!

My first and foremost responsibility is to my budget, and my buying what I want whether on-line or in store is priority.

Great article Kergillian,

I always try to buy local in most everything I do. I don't expect everyone to not buy offline at times. Everyone does it, but I agree that you should support your local shops. When you do buy those packs or supplies for a little bit more than you can buy online, you are also paying to help support a local community.
You are helping support a place where you can go and play anytime, compete in tournaments, and be exposed first hand to new games and other stuff.

I feel like I am just rehashing what everyone else has said in this thread but I had to show my support for the little guy.

evilspider:

I know where you are coming from. And I understand you have a budget and where your priorities are.

That being said... I don't think this thread was meant to put responsibility on gamers to keep stores open. It was just meant to encourage people to purchase what they can afford from local stores. This is not just for financial reasons, this also brings more people into a store... which means more people gaming in-store... which means more people playing the game... which means more people buying the game... which means the game will continue to be made and supported.

Not everyone can afford to pay the higher prices at local stores. But if you can buy a single here or there, a booster pack, enter a draft tournament... that helps. Even just being there gaming with other people helps because it brings in more customers.

Believe me... no one here is faulting you for your buying habits... you are doing what is right for you. At the same time, I don't think anyone is trying to strong-arm or blame consumers... we are just trying to make suggestions that keeps the game, the industry and the stores that support it alive and kicking.

Erik I'm not saying anyone is, but that's how I felt after reading the article that's what I got from it, and I just stated that I disagree, which lead to others disagreeing, and well you know how on-line forums go...


Again does anyone remember when wizkids had 5 figures in a booster instead the the new standard of 4?

One less figure, and a dollar more, and Kergillian wants me to shop at a store. No thanks.