I think it depends. I think it is a bit unfair to compare with Magic but at the same time good to use it as a marker. Magic has been out for a long time now and has come a long way to become so dominant. But I should stress that it has taken a long time to reach that point. It too started small and took time to build. When I first started playing Magic, it could only be found in speciality stores, now you can find it in many large retail stores.

It is also unfair to compare to Yugioh b/c Yugioh sells a lot of cards to non-hardcore players. I am talking about the kids who watch the shows and buy just for fun and are not actively competitive in the game. But because it is so marketable and sells well, they are found in so many retail stores.

Again it isn't fair to compare it to those games. Yugioh IIRC is the number 1 selling CCG out there. It sells better than Magic, but would you say it is bigger than magic? Not necessarily, I think you can come with arguments to support both ways.

We have to remind ourselves that Vs. is new and you need to give it a chance. If it can survive then that initself is a success story. Star Trek, star wars, pokemon..these all did well for a while but are somewhat dead now.

L5R is probably one of the most successful CCGs out there, it is still being played today and there is much support for that game. It isn't nearly as huge as Magic but I don't think anyone can deny its success.

Vs is growing everyday. As long as uppder deck continues to do a good job, it will attract new players. Word of mouth goes a long way and longevity helps.

One thing I will say that Magic has an advantage over VS. is that VS. is limited or restricted to existing characters whereas in magic they are given free reign to create at will. This is advantages to Magic as they have nothing to restrict their ideas where as Vs must conform to set characters.

Of course, this can be viewed as a positive thing as it can also be seen as a selling point (e.g. as in the situation with the avengers and JLA)

blah i'm rambling now

Hmm

Living in Florida is a good thing.

We have a pretty large player base of good competative players and our hobby league is growing - upto 10-14 players a week.

We have even had enough people to run 2 tournaments an 8 player golden and an 8 player modern on the same night.

Soon going to goto 2 tournaments with the more competative players in one and the newer players in the other--at least I hope so and let players graduate up to the competative on when the feel comfortable enough to do so or have started to win consitently in the new player tourney.

- Is the VS System as big as you thought it would be at this point in time?

Yes, because it's a great game.

- I have had people tell me that they expect VS System to get as big as Magic: The Gathering.
- Can we expect that to happen?

Magic still has many years on VS. or any other card game for that matter. However they started from nothing and had to develop as they went. UDE took the best aspects of game engines for several card games and made something new.

- Also how big is VS where you live?

There are 2-3 major stores running multiple tournaments a week. I just started hosting tournaments at my store, so it's taking a while to drum up support.

- Is it as popular as you thought it would be?

I'm surprised it's not bigger than it is. Everyone knows of superheroes, and everyone can at least relate to one. It's certainly better than a lot of card games out there, and the prizes for the big tourneys are some of the best around.

- How long do you expect before the huge burst in new players?

I'd give it until this summer, because that's when the new Batman and FF4 movie hit theatres. Plus the new starters that are a bit more friendly to newer players. Free Comic Book Day drew some people in as well. Packs flew off the shelves last Saturday. Plus they were marked down to $3.00/pack.

The new sets will have an impact. Everyone who has the least bit of comic knowledge knows about the Avengers or the JLA.

I do agree though, UDE should advertise on TV, since they already do with YGO. Perhaps a few plugs during JLU episodes on Cartoon Network...? Toon Disney also re-runs X-Men and Spider-Man episodes.

Who are the Avengers? amd isn't the JLA just a way to get Superman and Batman into another comic?
:)

Haven't you heard the rule? UDE is required to print a Superman in every single DC set they release.

I thought that was just spiderman...;)

hey Raekwon, where in florida are ur leagues/tournaments? I'm in south florida, palm beach county. Are you within driving distance?

I believe that this game is being hindered by some things beyond its control. Let me elaborate.

I started playing ccgs about 11 years ago or so now, I remember buying Unlimited Magic packs for $2.00 each if thats an indication to anyone of how long I have played. I was lucky when I started playing Magic in that I had 10 friends that played regularly. We became very good at the game over time and a few of us are now semi-pro's with top 8 GP finishes and multiple PT appearences etc.

Out of this group which ALL still played MTG when Vs was released last year ALL 10 began playing VS and less than 6 months later ALL but me quit. The funny thing is that the reason that everyone started playing was the prize support UDE announced. Everyone was pumped that we could get in on the ground floor of a game and make some money and become known the way we missed out on in MTG. One of us actually won the first Sealed PCQ in Knoxville and another got 9th in the first 10k at Origins so they played in the PC at Indy.

Still, they all quit. The most common answer I got is that it's too hard to keep up with 2 games and since they are already so involved in MTG they should just stay there. We I ask why they play MTG and they say its for the money I laugh because theres easier money to be made in VS. When they say its because not a lot of people play thats also funny because of course not a lot of people play, they dont either!

My point is this: This game cannot expect to thrive by focusing all it's attention on trying to steal players from other games. It just doesnt work. I can explain to my friends that VS is the best game on the market mechanically (which it is by far), that it has the best prize support, easiest field due to few players (of skill or not) and that it is genuinely fun in a way in which MTG isnt anymore and they still wont play though they agree with me. You can lead a horse to water I guess...

After 100's of hours banging my head against the wall I had a chance encounter with someone who cleared it all up for me. It was funny really.

Okay, so Scott Elliot (UDE Organized Play Program Manager)visted my local store last weekend. While he was here he tested some of us to be LVL 2 judges, played some games and told some funny R&D stories. He even gave my store some free loot like shirts and a cool messanger bag to give out as prizes. He's a great guy, I'm not sucking up or anything, he just is.

Anyways, I approached him and explained briefly my situation and posed this question to him: What can regular players do to get others to play?

The first thing he asked me (and the guy standing next to me) was if we had been to PC Indy? I had and when he asked me if I remembered what the judges said at the start of the tournament I did. It was this: Be a cool guy, dont be a dick. IF everyone is cool to everyone else we can all have a good time which is what this game is ultimately about. So, he said, the first thing to do is be cool to everyone that plays, and have fun.

The second thing he suggested is something I am working on now which is that I go around my area and demo the game. I have contacted 3 comic book stores in my area and gotten a verbal agreement from all 3 to let me hold demo days there. The stores like the idea because it can only help them make more money. I like the idea because I may get more players to play. My strategy is to get my girlfriend to demo it with me so people will feel easier about approaching me.

The third thing he said was to get store owners to order the Hobby League packs and make sure that they are holding HL nights the same night every week. Demoing a game to someone and telling them theres a League to play in every week where you get promos WILL get people in the stores.

Also he said try to get peoples attention with the new starters tying into the Movies.

The reason I am sharing all of this that when I read threads like this I see that other people have my concerns. Lets be proactive and start to find solutions to our problems so we dont have to write threads lilke these anymore.

I have came accross this idea multiple times with VS. I live in a small town, but in Yu-Gi-Oh there was only like 3 people who played. I ended up signing up with UDE by becoming a Judge and Tournament Organizer, I then went down to my local card shop (who at the time did not carry YGO) and introduced the idea. He then bought 2 boxes and put up fliers and they sold like hot cakes. But the problem was that nobody came to the tournaments. So I waited at the store and when somebody came into the store and purchase a pack of YGO, I would demo the game for them and explain to them the prizes you could win and friends they could make. At the first tournament we had 3 people and by the time I quit we had 18-20 people regularly. I still judge and stop in. I have introduced the idea of VS to the owner but he is in the middle of combining stores with another card shop in town but he said he would get in the HL when everythings finished. So I figure I am going to Demo this game as well and show the Prizes, the cool game, and better game support (Both mechanically and money wise).

But it is a very good Idea Shoe and I think everyone that wants this game to spread should try your idea.

~ Dale

I personally like the state of the game as it is.

If games get too many people, they start to not get fun. I think this happened with Yugioh, because I used to play that and quit because every single deck was the exact same one. People who come into the game because everyone else is into it are likely just going to copy the best deck and play it. The amount of people we have is good enough to have big events, and enough to have decent sized local tournaments and prize support. I think we're at a good medium as of now.

I think once VS branches a little beyond your regular super heroes it will get bigger. A Transformers or GI Joe set for example.

On YGO Theres only 1 deck ( CHAOS DECK...) Here... Common Enemy, Teen Titan, Curve Sentinel, Psimon Says, EMS, TNB and more... ALL those decks can beat each others... U have more deck to choise... in YGO just CHAOS... I think is not the same..

- Is the VS System as big as you thought it would be at this point in time?

When this game was first released, and I understood it, I thought within 2 years it would be the number 1 CCG in the marketplace. However, as time as progressed, my opinions have changed.

My biggest criticism is the number of sets released in a year. The wallet is only so deep, and with the economy in tough shape, and th eoutrageous prices in energy and Gasoline, its getting harder and harder to justify buying new packs.

I did all right for the first 3 sets, even got an entire playset of each, but that was it. I won some Marvel Knights packs at a 10K event, but that was the newest stuff I have. But that's neither here nor there.

Sidenote: Can anyone here tell me how this new tourney structure works? I understand the last few events have been the last 2 Marvel sets. When Green Lantern comes out, will it "rotate" to the last 2 DC sets? Confused... thanks

- I have had people tell me that they expect VS System to get as big as Magic: The Gathering.
- Can we expect that to happen?

I don't know if it will be a matter of VS growing to that size as MtG coming down. Over the last few months, the stores I visit have had less and less of a turnout for Friday Night Magic and casual drafts. Magic is going into the 3rd set of a very underperforming Block (sales wise), and VS should take this opportunity go gain some ground. I just don't see it happening.


- Also how big is VS where you live?

I guess its doing all right. I played in a 5 person free-for-all last night, which was more than I expected. They have the league today, but Saturdays are tough for me, so I'll ask about turnout later.

- Is it as popular as you thought it would be?

To summarize - no. I thought it would be bigger.

- How long do you expect before the huge burst in new players?

I expect an influx during the summer months, but that's just a temporary fix.

The answer depends on UDE.

I would like to see demo tables set up at Yu-Gi-Oh events, with free boosters given away to drive the new players to this game.

I think that the Yu-Gi prerelease and the VS. prereleases or events should be combined. Example, a Yi-Gi prerelease and a VS 10K the same day, in the same building/hall. Nothing draws a crowd like a crowd.

I would like to see UDE take something from the experiment at PT Philly for Magic the Gathering. I think the idea of a Skins format is excellent, though the execution needed work (Byes for the best record??? For those who don't know, at Pro-Tour Philly, byes, aka Auto-Wins, were given out to those with the best records, not the worst.).

Magic's Pro-Tour Club is a good idea as well. It could be modified to appeal to more players, though. Sure, money, airline tickets, and hotel rooms being comped is great, but what if this was the case:

You place top 32 at a PC, you get VS Points. When you acquire so many points, you get a prize or bonus of some sort. What if the prizes were all-inclusive trips, gift certificates to stores, a new car? Sure, the money for the prizes ($40K for the winner) would have to come down, but can you imagine telling people: "This new car? Yeah, got it playing VS." That would get people's attention in a hurry. Why? Because they could SEE it.

Sorry for the ramble.

I think it's becuase Wizards of the Coast has Coined the term TCG (Trading Card Game); thus, only Wizards games are reffered to as TCG

I am a new player in the VS game. I playMagic, Heroclix, etc. In my area I see that VS System is becoming popular. In my opinion, one of the main reasons a game attracks new players is money. Of course there are other cases such as me and my friend and many others who joined to see their favorite superheroes beat up our not so favorite superheroes. I think the game will pick up with time, we just need to get the word out and as long as there is a league and prices to encourage people to play and buy x4 of every new card. I can't wait to see Thor in there....