Yeah, I was one of those guys that finished Top 8 in December and I didn't get the extended art Doom that I was promised to get.

And I also agree that their rulings can be pretty lame at times. I remember once I played a Bamf! and my opponent let it resolve. But when I tried an attack much later he tried to overload me, saying that the effect of Bamf! was still on the chain and that he can still respond anytime. Then the judge agreed. I just hope he didn't understand the situation fully. But I didn't know I could appeal otherwise I would have.

Another judge also told me that when cyclops slim and another character team attacks a player directly, the cause no breakthrough.

That and they don't post results like they should. Sorry if I offended anyone

so what is your guys point trying to put down the store. cause that is what i see is what your doing. all your doing is whining and trying to bag on them. thats very imature.

From what I understand, what we're doing is trying to get UDE to notice these problems and at least address them with pastimes. Again, sorry if I am offending anyone.

I'm certain it applys to Hobby League cards, those cards are strictly off-limits.

I can't say if the rules apply to PCQ cards or any other type of cards, but all Hobby League materials are off limits.

Carlost i am certainly not trying to bash,flame,put down, trash, or any thing like that to pastimes. I am simply trying to get upper deck to notice the problems that people other than myself have had with their tournaments.
sorry if i did offend you, that is most certainly not what i am after. i do not feel like your post was constructive though. Why would you feel the need to tell us we are immature and whiners?
I appreciate the time everyone is taking to discuss this issue, and would like to again state that i am sorry if anyone is offended or put off by my displeasure.
thanks
lbx!

Hello All,

Good to see everyone is passionate for their game - always a good start.

I would like to respond to the discussion here, but am going to take a day to read everyone's comments thoroughly and speak with some of the folks who have judged our Iowa events.

Please check back here for comments - and please feel free to e-mail me with any questions, comments or concerns directly at [email protected]

Again, I am certainly glad you guys are into the game - we certainly want it to be fun for you.

Brandon, I can feel for you when mistakes are made.

But let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Some of your complaints are valid and I am sure Alan will get to the heart of the matter but there are a few points that are not within Pastimes scope to properly handle.

Taking too long to finish a tournament? Well, some people will take their time playing a hand. And some people, like the guy who made the lovely Witching Hour deck that was run at the Niles 10K, have a deck that just takes a long time to resolve effects. My experience with Pastimes is that they have always been efficient with getting pairings for the next round posted and in play. The rules are written such that your opponents are required to play in a timely manner. If they are dragging out their plays you can express your concern to a judge.

As far as the language at tournaments...well, I too wish to staple tongues to foreheads on occassion as well. Personal behavior can only be addressed to a certain point by the judges. If they cannot get a player to reign in their mouths, perhaps others (wink,wink) can compel the player to behave appropriately.

But I hope all this gets sorted out.

[holding comments till Alan has his say]

[see above]

I would like to state for the record that I have attended a few of the Des Moines PCQs and I have met Alan personally. I do think they try very hard to meet the expectations of the people who come to play.

I was at the PCQ the original poster referred to where MMK was announced legal at the last minute, but I really hadn't planned on using it anyways, personally.

Their head judge even looked up a ruling for me when I was in disagreement with his ruling; he surely did not have to do that.

The only thing I've ever been disappointed with was after the DGL release, they ran only one reflight so they could leave back to Chicago, but that is understandable as well.

And IF UDE is monitoring this thread, they need to shut down most of the hobby league stores' prize support. Playsets of DGL support appearing on line the week it was delivered to us disgusts me, especially if noone is supposed to be reselling these.

If I have extra cards from my tourneys, I stockpile them and give them away as prizes for events that fall outside our normal times; same for the T-Shirts.

But, back to the subject at hand, tournaments (especially larger ones) always run late, no matter the game system, and I don't think Pasttimes can really be faulted for that.

What I would request is that if they run Mayhem events, don't schedule Yugi-oh and PCQs at the same time; their store simply isn't big enough.

Other than that, I'm just glad we *have* midwest PCQs. I'm in the process of securing my fourth judge so maybe we can have another venue in the midwest to run them.

So thank you to the Pasttimes crew. I'm sure it's not always fun/easy, but thanks for giving us an outlet.

First I'll start off with the good things going on in the Mid-west:

Luckily I'm always aware of the tourneys going on thanks to good information from the pastimes website. Second there is always a pre-release close by, same goes for PCQs. I've become familiar with all the local judges, they're all pretty cool and make fair calls.

Now the Bad:

Up to date by biggest gripe of the gaming in Mid-west is the tourney reports. The St. Louis area still hasn't received credit for the GLC pre-release. My rating would benefit alot from that days ratings and I've got nothing to show for it. PCQ's seem to go by alot quicker than other tourneys. If the Mid-west 10k's could start on time and not allow so much time for rounds that would be alot more convenient.

That's all right now!

Hello All,

It took me a couple of days to talk with our judges and look at what was going on before replying here. I would like to be as thorough as possible. I appreciate your patience and, again, I am glad people care enough to get upset when things don't go the way they think they should.

LBX, I would like to address your concerns one-by-one.

OK Brandon - don't move yet! We like having you here and the better thing to do is try to fix the problem and have everyone be happy. I am sorry if you feel we have done anything bad to you - it is certainly never our intent. In regards to others posting - as I have said, I always like feedback. Positive lets us know we are doing it right - Negative let's us know what we have to improve.

I would be lying, as would any TO or Judge in any game, to say that incorrect rulings never happen. These are obviously mistakes - we are human and there are a lot of rules! We always try to fix them if we can, and to try to learn from them if they happen. If you feel there is an issue - always appeal that decision to the Head Judge. That is your right and YOUR responsibility to take that action. If the HJ is incorrect, you should let the TO know, and you should discuss it again (calmly) with the HJ after the event to see what happened.

Not sure what the *in iowa* thing is about, but there should NEVER be allowed. It is against UDE, Pastimes and Mayhem policy. We try to be fair and give warnings, but people should always be on good behavior and thinking of others. Summer did not respond, but I would be interested in hearing from her if this was a true issue. Again, if there is a problem, it should always be brought to the Head Judge's attention, or the store, or the Tournament Organizer. We have a pretty low tolerance for unsportsmanlike conduct, just ask the list of people who cannot play in our events anymore!


This is a tough one. I like to think I know my Head Judges pretty well. Most judge for Pastimes somewhere in the Midwest almost every weekend. Most are high-level judges in one or multiple games and know "what is going on." Nobody should ever be treated differently because they are a judge - and it would not be tolerated by me if it was going on. My only question here is: was this the head judge? Was an appeal made? These are rhetorical - I don't need an answer. Please know that our judges are watching this thread and know that I feel very strongly about this issue. It is important, and again, your responsibility, to make sure you appeal a call if you don't agree. Again, see above for what to do then. Final word: Judges don't get special attention, period.



5) Being unable to keep a tournament on schedule. now i have been playing ccg/tcg's for a LONG time, and i understand that tournaments are RARELY on time for the end, and sometimes on the beginning. 3 hours late? 2 hours late? i mean please, there should be some standards here some where.
6) Rulings that are blatantly wrong, coming from people who are judging the tourney, and being supported by the follow up judge. A guy is playing Gamma Doom, at an event, stuns robot destroyer, and then gamma bombs. He does not take his damage from destroyer AFTER effects resolve. I ask why not and he says that a judge told him he did not have to take it. I call a judge, he agrees with the guy, so i appeal.
The next judge *maybe in support of the first one* agrees as well. i loose the game by 3 endurance. I am again left sitting in my chair stunned.

I have other issues with them as well, but i shall leave those to others to report to you. The reason for that is that i witnessed these things, but i am hoping that the people who had them happen will actually come to you with them instead of me doing it.


OK, again it is tough for me to deal with specific issues because they are not in "real-time", but here is something important many players forget - and I do not mean this as a jab, but as something everyone should REALLY remember - PLAYERS HAVE RESPONSIBILITIES in an event as well. Here is a section from the comprehensive rules - which everyone is expected to know coming into an event:

6 Player Responsibilities

UDE players are expected to do the following things, whether they are currently involved in a tournament or not:

· Know and follow the most current and applicable TCG rules and UDE tournament policies
· Follow instructions of any judge or tournament official
· Ensure they only register for one UDE membership number
· Act in a sporting and respectful manner at all times
· Act responsibly and professionally in, or near, the tournament site
· Communicate very clearly each move that they make during game play
· Keep their hands and cards above the table during matches
· Notify an opponent if he or she fails to follow any game rules or incorrectly tracks game score or life totals during a match, regardless of whom the error benefits
· Avoid talking to any spectators during a match
· Avoid swearing or using inappropriate language or gestures
· Avoid wearing inappropriate or offensive clothing
· Avoid making offensive comments to any player or official
· Avoid insulting opponents or opponents' strategies, play skills, and so on
· Maintain accurate birth date and contact information for their UDE membership account
· Maintain an accurate tournament rating. If a player notices anything unusual or incorrect in his or her rating, he or she must email [email protected] immediately.

Certainly not that the judge should not know the answer, the judge should - but so should each player. Checking the web before each tournament for updates is a great idea. The judges, obviously, should be doing this as well. And again, always check with the Head Judge (more on this to come!)


While I may be willing to see your points on some issues - I know this issue is NOT the case. Even if I am not at an event I contact every Event Lead shortly after the event is to start. We have NEVER begun an event even an hour after it's start time. Now remember, if we call for registration to begin at 9, we will start that tournament at 10. If it is sealed first (not anymore) than passing out the packs, registering the deck etc.. all count as part of the tournament. So, if Round 1 starts at 11, that is ON-Time for a 9 a.m. Registration Sealed Event. Many people forget that the start is not when Round 1 begins, but when we have posted the first "seat-all-players."

The only tournament that has ever started event mildly late was the MMK Pre-Release which was mentioned in another post. In this instance we started 1/2 hour late, but registration started an hour late which might have been deceptive. Overall, the event was only 1/2 hour late and that was because the judge did get lost. Happens every once in a while - again - we are human. It was his first time at Mayhem. Even though many of our judges drive a distance to run these events, it is still their responsibility to get them started on-time. We are definitely making this a priority.

In regards to time between rounds, I am also going to speak up for my judges here - who take A LOT of flack from players during tournaments. Trust me when I tell you that they want rounds to go quickly. These are very long days for them as well. We will NEVER wait inbetween rounds by our own choice - we are ALWAYS waiting for a match to end. We are allowing the rules to run their way through. Again, if a 30 minute round starts at 10 a.m., the next round may not start at 10:35 if players are still in-turn. Think about this the next time you are in the middle of a long end-turn. Everyone else is waiting. This does NOT mean you should change what you are doing - but it means that you SHOULD realize that the judge has very little he can do to get the next round's pairings up. We are happy to do it - but we are ALWAYS waiting for you to get to the next round - not the other way around!!

Well, I will say this - you did what you were supposed to - you appealed. All I can say is, and yes, I am backing "my guy", that our judges are incredible. This does not mean they never make a mistake - but they hit it right almost all the time. Often an issue can be a mistake of how the situation was presented or what has happened since the discovery of the issue - but they are always going to try to do what is right. These guys judge because they enjoy it and they are good at it - again, not perfect, but darn close.

In regards to judges and the program, we are always training judges as well. That is why it is important to appeal if you have a question. Dom (Dominic) has Head-Judged many of the Des Moines events, as has Scott Lelivelt. Both are strong Level 2 judges, and only Level 2 because the Level 3 test is not out yet. Scott is a Level 3 Magic judge and Dom is a Level 2 Magic judge as well. These guys know their stuff and go around the Midwest trying to share it with those who are interested in helping keep these events going. We are always trying out new judges, so please ask questions - you might have a student driver who needs to be put back on the road. It is YOUR responsibility to ask these questions - and the Head Judges' responsibility to try to get everything on the road going smooth.

Speaking of judges - here is a favorite saying of mine - "you don't like how the judging is in your area - fine - fix it by becoming a judge." I guarantee you it is not as easy as it looks. Come on board and give it a try - maybe you'll like it!

In regards to this we have actually seen very few other comments here - but I thought it was important to respond anyway. I hope the answers help. I will tell you that it helps us - we will definitely be going over these issues as we meet to talk about judges and our programs.

There was a comment about an event where people did not get their prize support after we did not receive it from Upper Deck in time. Some of you have received your cards and we had bad info on some others - so we have not gotten you your prize. I apologize for this. If you feel you are still deserving a prize, please contact me directly with the date of the event, what format it was, what place you took and your full contact info. Send this to [email protected]. Again, my apologies for that delay.

In regards to having Dooms in our case at the 10K. That is a tough one. The store is allowed, to the best of my knowledge, to purchase and sell ALL single cards - extended art prizes or not. That we owed them to people bothers me and we have been trying to make that right. However, the store does run fairly independently of our events business so they often do not "communicate."

Again, the prizes have been here for you and we have been trying to get them to you, so contact us and we will get them to you and get past this issue.

One MAJOR issue is reporting events. We absolutely report events immediately. We have found, and are working with UDE, that there is a "glitch" in reporting some events. To go into it would be a very long process - but know that we, and UDE, are spending A LOT of time fixing it. We process all events immediately. That does not mean that their server is receiving or posting them correctly. We are far from the only ones having this issue - but you attend our events so those are the issues you have and see. Check these boards and you will see that it is not just a Pastimes issue. Don't worry - all will be fixed with time. Remember, this whole system is just over a year old!!

We have greatly enjoyed running events at Mayhem, both in Des Moines and Ames (actually the one yesterday went blisteringly fast, ending at 6:30 or so) and the players were great!! Iowa has been a great home for Pastimes events and will continue to be as we try out new areas like Iowa City and others.

We hope to have all of you there as well - in Des Moines, Ames and other areas. We are always listening to your comments - and appreciate all the feedback. Also, feel free to e-mail any ideas, questions, comments or concerns to me directly at [email protected]. If you are interested in judging, let me know -we can certainly work you into the program.

LBX (and others), I know this all does not "fix" what you thought was wrong, but maybe it gives you a bit of what we deal with, a few answers and a little insight into some options for the future. If not, let me know and we will try to help further. Hopefully we all benefit from discussions like these.

Thanks for coming and making these events great!!

See you soon - somewhere, anywhere in the Midwest!!

Alan,

Being from NJ, I have no connection to anything Mid-west related.

But I'm sure that your responces here have helped any readers who frequent Pastimes. It's great to see game store owners on the site.

I want to respond to this though:

I have heard from Upper Deck that store owners cannot sell Hobby League cards. I don't know if that has changed, but I'd check on that if you're not sure (since they are cracking down on such sales).

I also don't know if that applies to PCQs or other events (to my knowledge, it doesn't). Hobby League I'm sure of, though, so you might want to check to see if that's still the case.

But even though I've never been to Pastimes, it's great to see such a thorough responce on the board!

Alan i appreicate your responses, but i do have to ask about your statement of "While I may be willing to see your points on some issues - I know this issue is NOT the case. Even if I am not at an event I contact every Event Lead shortly after the event is to start. We have NEVER begun an event even an hour after it's start time."
I honestly can say that the statement above is false.
In indianapolis you were 3 hours late. Yes there was snow. I will not argue that point, so i even understood when it was 1 hour, heck even 2 but 3 hours. ouch. I traveled well over 200 miles to attend this tourney and i got there on time. Start time 10:00 AM actual start time 1pm. I do not feel that holding judges to this standard is beyond reasonable. The demoines pcq yeah that was the one where the guy was late due to lost. That happens. Heck i get lost in Wal-Mart. I wont throw stones at that one. I have never been to a pcq run by pastimes that started on time. I really do appreciate your responses, and i understand that you are sticking up for your guys. I do not blame you in the least. Loyalty to your employees and friends is critical.

· Follow instructions of any judge or tournament official
yeah i did that. I followed his instructions and even asked him to call some one to find out legality. After the phone call i was told it was not legal. So.... my responsibility was what again?

Thanks for your time
lbx!

LBX,

Here is a line from the UDE tournament policies document that explains what your responsibilities as a player are:

6 Player Responsibilities

UDE players are expected to do the following things, whether they are currently involved in a tournament or not:

· Know and follow the most current and applicable TCG rules and UDE tournament policies



The current legal sets are printed and up to date in the UDE tournament policies documents on UDE's website. It is YOUR responsibility as a player to know this document coming into an event. Yes, the judge should know it and did get you an answer, but it is YOUR responsibility to know it.

I've been to some of the Indianapolis events. What was the date of the PCQ with the snowstorm?