If someone can't get enough points in a PCQ, they don't deserve to play in the Pro Circuit. Doesn't matter who they have to play against. If they play in a PCQ against qualified players, they are likely more ready to play in the Pro Circuit than folks who may not have had as difficult a PCQ to fight through.

Just my opinion.

i recently q'd for the pc and i think it was a lot better that i played against people that are better than me. this way when i go to so cal i will be prepared

i personally think q'd people should b allowed to play in pcqs

50 people in an area. One get's qualified at the first PCQ. He's now banned until he makes a PC. Next PCQ the guy who got second last time gets second again and 2 more are quali-banned. 47 people left! And double that for Sealed/Constructed. Soon enough you're all banned. No one can play in PCQs. The game is dead. Nice going.

-Mike

RanmanSolo wins the thread

lol

i really have no opinion on this because i believe it depends on the area that people are in

Yep. I'm REALLY going to feel confident at a Pro Circuit if players like Vidi, Ryan, Fletcher, etc. weren't allowed to play in a PCQ. Obviously I'd get the most out of my games since I couldn't play against the best. I probably split with a guy in the finals, get 125 bucks, and said "wow. Now let's blow a couple hundred and go to the next PC."

Then I'd get thrased by players I couldn't play against on a competitive level. Fun! :D:D:D

Pro players still pay money to play the game. They're obviously going to want to earn some of their money back. This is aside from the fact that a scrub who wins in a qualifier where only scrubs played is, basically, "the better scrub".

If you feel confident enough to finish in the money at a PC, play in the LCQs if you don't want to face pros. Dunno if you've ever seen the decklists for LCQs for things like Yu-Gi-Oh, but they're ugly. VERY ugly. Now apply this to a game that actually has more skill involved than luck. You see where I'm going with this.

ok, so here is an important aspect some of you fine folks are overlooking, maybe by lack of opportunity to even think about it or maybe deliberately.

if an area has mediocre players, then many players will remain mediocre, right?

buty if good players 'make' other players better, then that is just as unfair, right?

i mean to say that if player a comes from a great player base and is better prepared for the big guys than player b who is from a podunk town with no players of skill, is it fair for them to compete?

i ask this b/c i see people championing the need to play against great players for the game to thrive.

if great players are the only way the game can thrive, then why bother to offer players a chance to compete on a pro level in those podunk regions in the first place?

i strongly believe that a qualifier should be for people that are not yet qualified for the pro circuit to get a chance to compete to be qualified.

i feel that this should exclude players that are already qualified from competing in qualifiers, as they are already qualified.

not because they are making money.

not because they are harder to play against.

simply because they are disrupting the flow by causing points to go unawarded, and they are already qualified.

if they want to make money, that is on them.

ude offers at least one more event that has a handsome payout, and with great competition levels. that is what 10k's are for as i see it.

in the future i expect we will see the exclusion of the qualified from pcq's as ude will allow them to play in 10k's between pc's and such.

but only time will tell on that.

but if they do ban qualified players

that means they have to increase the 10k rates and more PC meaning less prize handouts

there are about 30-50 people qualified in socal (im just gonna use socal as an examples because its loaded with people thats qualified)

then they have to wait for 10ks and PC's which comes once in about 3-4 months

and what about the people that's qualified and can't afford to take trips to other states just to play card games because of school or money?

so that means they'll have to wait 3-4 months for just a 10k, and a year to play in a PC locally

wats the point of spendind good money in this game if we're gonna just play for money like once a year

and once the Qed people are gone, more people gets Qed and the number of contestants in pcqs will slowly go down until it is gone

Qualified players should be allowed to play, plain and simple.
I come from playing MTG and the reason they can afford to stop people from playing once they are Q'd is that they only give out 1 slot for each of there qualifier and its only good for the next PT. VS gives out points that can be used at ANY future PC, so that even if you finish 2nd your still closer to Q'ing. While in MTG if you finish 2nd you get a box, a pin and are no closer to Q'ing unless you just needed like 50 rating points.
Ben Wienburg

I like having pro players able to play in PCQs as it gives aspiring pro players experience against quality opponents.

At the last PCQ I played in we had a top 4 draft where one of the players had won a 10K (and T8d more I believe), another guy had a PC T8, and then my friend and I. My friend and I, lost to these "established pros", but I still learned a lot. If I had bothered to read a card in Game 2 I would have actually won. I guess the point of this rambling is that without that experience I may not be taking the time and effort to travel to LA. If I didn't feel like I could compete it wouldn't be worth my time to go.

I think it would be better to most people to lose to a "pro" in a PCQ and realize that you may not be ready to play at a PC yet, than travel to the PC, filled with confidence from winning your local 10-man PCQ, and get absolutely crushed round after round.

That being said, I would like to see the points pass down, to some extent, rather than be "black-holed". Giving people the opportunity to play at the Pro Circuit doesn't cost anyone but the person playing anything (OK it costs UDE something if they make Day 2, and possibly it costs the players 1 more round worth of time).

I would propose that points pass down among the Top 8 (or 4), meaning that if a guy with 0 PCCs Top 8's along with 7 pros with 20+ PCCs (the maximum you can get through PCQs) that guy should get his 10 PCCs and the opportunity to play in a Pro Circuit. The 9th & 10th place players would still get their 1 PCC. This would prevent some guy that goes 0-3 drop from get a trickle-down invite because everyone else happens to have 20+ points.
What would people think of that proposal? I'd be interested to know.

The argument isn't whether it costs anyone anything, because it certainly doesn't, the argument is are the people who are basically handed an invitation through passed down points worthy of even being at the Pro Circuit. The Pro Circuit isn't a 10k, it's for the best in the game to play at the highest level, some guy shouldn't get in because he got 12th a few times against a bunch of qualified players.

Or maybe you're just very wrong here. ;)

Not necessarily at all. If two mediocre players play together constantly they will improve unless they've reached their absolute potential, it will just take longer.

Of course skill is unfair. That's why we play VS, not Yu-Gi-Oh or dice rolling or cutting a deck of cards.

The Podunk Townie will get better by playing at the PC. It would be a ROUGH lesson, but he will invariably learn something. He'll come home to Podunkia and utilize this knowledge in his playing of the next PCQ and thus spread the "New Fact" around. Like VD only less fun now, more fun later.

Let's use Podunkia as an example again. They have 23 people who come to every single PCQ they can make it. Month 1, 2 people are quali-banned and 2 people are halfway there. Next month 2 more people win who didn't Top 10 last time, but one of the second places gets second again and the other makes Top 4. 3 more people quali-banned. You now have 18 people showing up. Only 6 show up for the sealed on the third month, because everyone else is trying to be cute and show up "late" to be one of the only people playing DCMA.

One person wins, second placer gets 2 more points (total of 9), and someone with a second place in the first sealed, Top 10 in the second sealed and Top 4 in constructed gets the other top 4 spot. 4 points get black holed. Someone wins constructed. 3 more people who can't play.

Now let's say there's a PC at that point. It's in Paris. Well, no body in Podunkia can make it to Paris. So there's still only 15 people allowed to play in PCQs. This continues to the next PC. It's in Indianopolis. Nobody in Podunkia can make that trip. Uh oh. Only 7 people left for their PCQs! Everyone Top 8's BOTH PCQs all ready! Uh oh. Now there's 3 un-qualified players. And now there are none and no one can make So-Cal. Dead game. Good going, there.

So people with 40 points or less are cool though? Cause I agree with that. 41 or more and you should be making a PC to spend some.

What if they just want to play? Hmmm?

This is ridiculous. 10K's are all most as hard to get to as PCs for most people. And bad enough that a lot of people have to travel just to get to a PCQ you expect them to travel all across the country and World just to play in a big tournament every month? You must think 10k's give out 10k to everyone who enters!

I expect to maybe eventually see people who black hole points to be excluded once all most all areas have 80-100 people PCQs. Which will likely mean 10K's regularly in most states every other month or so, thus making the burden of travel much, much lighter for those who still want to play a big tournament or two before the next PC.

-Mike

Qualified players should be allowed the chance to win money that comes with pcqs, but as for the points I think if the points just trickled down that would be awesome.

Say 1-4 in a pcq are qualified already but players 5-12 arent, the points would trickle down to those places instead.

Maybe just being qualified is to harsh but if you already have say 30 points earned this season

Slitty - You might want to read the entire post before you comment.

I specifically said that the points shouldn't pass down beyond the Top X (whatever the cutoff point is for the tournament).

So your scenario of "some guy shouldn't get in because he got 12th a few times against a bunch of qualified players" wouldn't happen under my proposed plan.

I think T8ing in a tournament with at least 7 other pros is worth something more than a single PCC.

I admit I exaggerated what you said, but it was for effect. Qualified players didn't get handouts, why should anyone else.

Actually I'm pretty sure that some of the qualified players did get handouts. They were called "courtesy invites".

At any rate, I'm not proposing handouts. I'm proposing that players who have worked hard enough to compete and do well in a qualifier be rewarded for that dedication.