We don't charge to play in HL at our shop, however we get the league kits for free, unlike some other places I think. UDE advice is that it is ok to charge $1 for playing in HL if there are no added booster prizes, more if you throw booster prizes in.

I think the Hobby League idea is excellent. We tend to use it for testing and don't have HL sanctioned tournaments. Players then feel it is fine to try out new deck ideas without risking points or bigger prizes.

It does make me sick when shops sell the cards, or just keep them for themselves. Don't they realise that in the long run they are just reducing the chances of the game being successful? I have a direct example of this as a shop in the UK sells the EAs on ebay as soon as they get them, and one of my regulars said he hadn't been coming to our HL as he could just now buy the cards and save time. :(

Mind if I ask who you refer to when you refer to "UDE"?
Trust me, retailers have to pay for the league kits, well atleast in the US they do, and if UDE practices a different standard for International retailers, well that's unfair to the retailers in the US.

According to UDE policy, a retailer has the right to charge a resonable fee for entry into the hobby league.

Pay to play? Who the hell has the balls to charge customers to play for something free?

Oh wait...

Without naming names an employee of UDE I knew through another game when that person worked for another company in a simiar capacity. Someone whose opinion i trust.

And it makes me sick to be exploited by dealers. Very sick - I pay hard for these cards, they were never cheap. That's fine, but don't take the p155 out of me because of it.

Again, please read this thread
http://www.vsrealms.com/forum/showt...adid=33773&

The fact that a UDE rep reads these forums tells me they do care & will take action if you are willing to help out. If you are that angry, then do something about it.

I have read that thread and I have (tried) to do someting about it, hence my aforementioned communication with UDE staff. It's out of my hands and if they tell me the kits are free then I will believe them.

trust me, speaking as a retailer, those kits are not free, if you want I can show you every single credit card charge that UDE has made for the League kits. But since you seem to have made up your mind about it being free, I don't think we can change that. Nonetheless, whether a retailer has to pay for the kits of not, they still have th follow the UDE rules regarding hobby league.

I didn't make my mind up, I was told by UDE. If I was told wrong, or if you have been incorrectly charged then that's sad. It seems foolish for my shop to buy into something that is only gathering dust.

triangle, we are obviously going to believe the guy who actually is a Storeowner and pays for the kits than someone who whines 'But UDE told me so!'.

Give proper proof, or we will assume you are talking bullcrap. Sorry.

In the UK, in my store at least, I don't pay for league kits. I suspect that everyone in the US has to pay

Boka, that's very interesting to know. I'm very surprised to hear that. I wonder what UDE's justification on this practice is. Why are stores in the United States required to pay for something that is given to store in other countries for free.

yeah... Store owners in Latina America don't pay for the kits either... but there's still one that keeps some of the league prizes for himself without a good reason, because as far as I know if at least 8 people play in the league all of them should receive a copy of the EA rare and a copy of the EA uncommon... I have never really cared about the participation card... but I really hate when they do these things...

Now he wants to come around charging 2 bucks per player to participate in a tournament where the winner will receive an EA Genosha...

The kits do cost money. As a shop owner and Hobby League participator, I assure you, they do.

Dave

UDE apparently does not love the states as much as other countries.

or...

Maybe they are trying to promote it in other countries so they are giving it away for free. They know they already have a fan base in US so they don't need such practice...

It's like the ****dealer giving you the first *** for free. When you are hooked the ****dealer starts charging you.

My dear friends. Before there is some kind of virtual lynching, let me clarify on all points addressed in this thread.

**First off, a warning – I am feeling particularly wordy today, so this will be a long one, with plenty of over-selling and repetition. Points 1 and 2 below, pretty much state the facts, and the rest is a lot of gibberish**

1. North American accounts pay a $20 Licensing Fee per kit (up to 2 kits per month per account).

2. European, Australian, New Zealand, Latin American, and Martian Hobby League locations, *currently* do not pay for the kits they receive. There are other restrictions that affect non-North American locations such as # of kits available (usually 1 per outside of Europe).

Rationale for the above:

North American accounts are managed through our Carlsbad office. We have systems in place which allow for automated ordering, payment, and fulfillment of Hobby League kits to our direct accounts only.

Those systems are currently not in place for charging locations outside of N.A. ... but we are working toward it here in Carlsbad.

I've been getting requests for support for South Africa. How many hobby stores do you think are in S. Africa? Only a handful. When I do move forward with League support for that region, you can be sure that those kits will be free to retailers willing to participate. When/if we get to critical mass for hobby in South Africa, we will begin the process of standardizing our retail efforts there, which would likely include requiring a Licensing Fee per kit. Will it be the equivalent of $20 USD? Probably not. We will look at the market, and economy and set a reasonably-valued cost for that region. Until then, I may give a few kits to a judge or demo team member, or maybe to a library or after-school club. These will be free. Is that unfair to retailers in the U.S.? I'd love to hear the argument that it is ([email protected]).

But Europe is huge (you may be saying). In Europe for example, the economy doesn't work the same as here in the U.S.. Our European office currently does not have the systems required to sell direct as we do here. They are working on it. It may take 18 months to finalize and perfect. Maybe 24 months, or possibly 6. Until that time we will do the best we can with the model they have for hobby sales in Europe.
Any system built for our Amsterdam office must be able to handle multiple currencies, languages, and standards of business. Something we do not currently have.

The current reality is this: We want more international players. The more players we have in those areas, the more tourneys we can support. It means we can better support and justify PC events in Amsterdam, for example. How bout the 10K events all over the world. Vs. System is a heavily-North American game at present. We will continue to do everything within our power to establish Bogotá, Columbia as a Vs. System destination. What about Ireland? Malaysia? Australia?

How many stores can there possibly be selling Vs. System in, say, Luxembourg? When we get a store there who wants to run Hobby League, do we treat them as one of the hundreds in all of Europe, or do we look at the fact they are the first in all of Luxembourg, and work to grow Vs. in that country?

It can be a tricky question, but in the parameters of true Organized Play, we would always work to grow Vs. System in Luxembourg. Once established, we would work to bring them into the fold of automating as much of the process as possible, and that would most likely mean that they pay for the program.

As we move forward, an increasing number of countries and regions will begin to pay for Hobby League. Some won't. Some will never have to pay. But ultimately, you can depend on the ideal that we will always work toward the betterment of the program, and the growth of the community, all for the sake of the game, and you, the fans of Vs. System.

Again, if you would like to tell me about your local store doing unsightly things with Hobby League materials, email me at [email protected]

As always, we thank you for your continued support of our Organized Play programs and products.

Piece Out~