Again, I agree with that. I was floored by the perfection of the imagery when Superman was doing his thing. It looked like every single Vs. System card of him, and I loved it visually. If it was a music video it would have been gold.

I wanted an emotional story to go with it and I was sorely disappointed there. But then again, my idea of a good drama is Trainspotting.

The subtext in the first two X-Men films wasn't exactly subtle, and it was discussed ad nauseum, especially after the second film (and even during the press for the third, which obviously Singer wasn't involved in)- I'm astonished that you somehow managed to miss every interview Ian MacKellan gave about the series, and most of the reviews. It's not a matter of "personal sexual politics," but an intentional artistic choice to create a movie that was open to a wide variety of interpretations- one of which was probably a little closer to the director's own heart.

I agree that the media obsession is stupid, but I'm more frustrated that this concerned surfaced because Singer is gay, as though it's impossible for for him to tell a story without bringing that into it. All very silly. You'll notice people didn't start assuming Ang Lee was gay after Brokeback Mountain.

EDIT: There are people who don't think Trainspotting was good drama? These are strange people...

Oh, like the emotional roller coaster that was X-Men 3?

I just think you're holding this movie to an unreasonable standard for a super-hero movie.

You pitched it, I'll hit it.

I felt much more emotion with Jean Grey in X-men 3 than I did for all the Superman Returns characters combined. Much more.

Hmm. Interesting. I saw Jean as nothing more than 'Big Eyed Anime Girl' for pretty much the whole movie. I thought her 'acting' was pretty weak. But it could be more due to the fact that you felt sympathy for her plight.

One thing that Superman really can't ever do is make the audience sympathize. Empathize, sure, but not really step into the big red boots and -feel- for him.

You did see the original Superman movie right?

What was the plot of that film? Lex wants to send a chunk of Cali into the drink so he can make some money off otherwise worthless property?

Yet the movie is enjoyed by many. Sure, the second one may be part of the reason people 'love' the Reeves as Superman stuff [Supes Vs. Zod and company is pretty action packed]

Considering the 3rd and 4th movie are reviled ... the first film was an origin story and a reasonably bland encounter with Lex that involved a bit of Kryptonite. I haven't seen this film yet, but I doubt it's plot could be much thinner than the original film.

Mind you, I like the original film ... I can't see how anyone that did like the original could have THAT kind of complaint about this one ...

Agreed. I will admit that I related to Jean very directly on a personal level, I have experienced very similar states myself.

Supes is different and I have never liked him much. I am biased, although I did give it a chance. If I was a big fan I could have forgiven the lack of story and pure cliche much easier. A plot needs twists or it is just marketing.

Mind you, I don't. Point well taken.

That's something I hear a lot ... as a fan of Superman I always disliked the "I can't relate to a guy who is 'perfect' at all" types of arguments.

Maybe I'm an egotist ... but I'm pretty sure there are some people out there that remember being one of the tops of the class in school, who had parents that thought you could do no wrong, etc ... and having the pressure/knowledge that most people assumed you could do whatever you want without trying, that would be shocked to see you fail a test, etc.

Supes isn't perfect, he can't be everywhere at once, yada, yada, yada ... I've always enjoyed the small stories they'll occaisionally have where Superman has to confront someone embittered by Superman's 'perfection' ... or where he has to confront his own limitations [and not the Kryptonite kind]. Heck, in the first movie he had to 'invent' a new power of time travel to overcome his limitation of not being able to be everywhere at once/save everyone ...

Anyway ... I think it is possible to 'feel' what Superman feels like. Many people have felt removed from their peer group at some time or another. Have felt the pressure of expectations [perhaps even unrealistic expectations] placed upon them. Sure, Superman amps them up to the nth degree ... but then again, Batman's a guy that's human but equally hard to relate to. I think more people could relate to an adopted orphan than an orphan raised by a butler ... [Although Batman Beyond did more than any of the previous 4 movies to make Bats relatable ...]

Good points, but I think that the issue that most people have is that Supes doesn't share our vulnerabilies. Sure, he -has- vulnerabilities, but even those are pretty alien to us (we don't lose our powers around meteors).

When he does lose his powers and becomes human, he isn't really a hero any more, and instead is 'just' a normal person and incapable of dealing with the 'epic' challenges that he usually faces.

Superman Returns can't be any worse than X-Men 3 can it??? I haven't seen it but want to. Is Lois hot at least?

i would have to concur w/ cfbrunner. Singer gave a good illustration of that when Supes was getting a can whoop-ass opened him by Lex's henchmen.

SideNote: How the HELL did Kal Penn get his name in the opening credits without a speaking role?!?! LMMFAO!

Not.

At.

All.

(Unless lipgloss on the upper lip in every shot is your thing.)

So Supes go beat on?

Stu: Okay that makes me sad. Ever since I read Day of Vengeance I just picture Lois as being some major hotty. Oh well. :(

There should be some spoiler alerts here, and we shouldn't be telling that stuff anyway.