i suppose that i could taken different action to bring this issue to light but to be honest i don't know who is the mod for what nor have i used the PM function before today. I just acted. And the best way for me to get my point across was the front page. besides, beyond the derogatory thread title, there was a disclaimer so that those who could be offended were warned of the remaining content in the post(which was a racist joke from Boondock Saints). if the cost of me letting everyone know how jacked up it was that those racial slurs were allowed to be used in posts when much less derogatory terms were being blocked is for me to called an attention-##### or irresponsible, i'll bear that burden. i'll actually be interested to see when the changes i spoke to FatalSync about will take place. that will tell whether my actions were justified or not...

The original thread: "Hey, the filters on this site (which covers relevance, for those curious) don't block racial slurs. Let's prove it! Here are plenty of examples:"

It was removed. Then...

This thread: "Hey, that other thread was wrong. If you want to say something (note, this is, in fact, something), there are blogs you can use for that sort of thing!"

I don't think it's wrong for the original thread OR this thread to be posted, but it IS blatantly hypocritical for him to say that you should use a blog to spout off nonsense when his nonsense is not in blog form.

Well if whether or not your actions result in positive changes, any "Justification" that comes out of it is not likely to be universally shared. Saying that you "didn't know what else to do" and "you just acted" is simply irrationality, and while it does give you somewhat mitigating circumstances, it doesn't lessen what you did in the first place. The whole concept of "my actions instated a greater good", has been used hundreds of times over. People have even committed murders simply to prove that they can get away with it, and even when they did prove there point, especially since they could have simply argued their case, their action, in isolation to a simultaneous positive action, was still murder.

An act of heroism and a crime don't cancel each other out, but have to be handled seperatley. Simply by naming the thread alone you turned the forums into something much more hatefilled, and you have to be held accountable for that.

I'm going to level with you. I am a bigot. I actually hate people along lines that would largely be seen as prejudicial. However, I don't bring that stuff with me here, out of respect for the people on these forums; a respect that I believe you have disregarded by posting what you did. The intentional use of such terms can't be abided, or these forums will turn into something much uglier.

People come here to get away from all that BS in the real world, people come here with the trust that they won't subjected to racial slurs and hate-mongering, and by merely creating that post you violated that.

"Ignorance" is not an excuse.
"Acting rashly without thinking" is not an excuse.
Having your actions result in a tightening down of "security" is not an excuse.

You can take comfort that there may be some positive fallout from what you did, yes, but most crimes have some sort of positive fallout. Break serial killers out of prison and it will make police realize they need to tighten security, but what was done was still the exact crime at which you were supposedly "helping to stop". You have to see the hypocrisy in that.

What you did, no matter of intention, was a verbal attack upon the VS Realms community, and although you have every right to "justify" your actions, your "justification" really is no reason to avoid the banning that really needs to come down.

I can't think of any alternative but having you banned by the end of the day.

ah... gotcha.
i think i missd that part of your post beforehand.
carry on!

They could, and, this is purely off the top of my head, NOT be banned by the end of the day. That's possibly an alternative. At least one that I can think of.

I think they should receive warning points for breaking forum rules, but banishments should not be given out so quickly and easily. Hell, Melvin the Jerk, one of the most offensive people these boards have ever seen, had his banishment contemplated over a multiple-month period (if I'm not mistaken), and eventually had many, many, many users upset that he DID get banned for just being an all-around #######. I don't think vsrealms wants that kind of random uproar, and, believe me, if these people got banned for doing something as simple as this, a lesser version of that anger would follow. After all, there are plenty of people who would go around to all the threads that stu or Foilball or Warran creates and point out the inherently wrong things of those forums, and that those posters should be banned if Seanvalen gets banned. I could start finding and quoting posts by prominent users that are possibly ban-worthy, if you really want.

Warning points are also a good option, because they allow everyone to know that this will not go unpunished; in the same vein, we are not reminded of the temporarily-fascist days of old. (And, if you weren't around for Melvin the Jerk, I'm sorry for using that example. Just imagine a very...charismatic, funny #######, one much moreso than you'll see on the realms nowadays. Now, imagine him getting banned for what everyone is TOLD is just some silly post that was a joke and overall not THAT offensive, when, in truth, it was because of some harassing PMs. Now, imagine warning points being given out to everyone that says he shouldn't have been banned just for speaking their minds, which really did happen. Finally, imagine that, after it all, the mod responsible gets fired, and all the other mods take a much lighter hand with affairs. And that's the history of the strictness of vsrealms, with the modity of stu left out for irrelevance.)

Sarcasm unneccesary, but I get your point.


If they were to the degree of posting a thread with the title that seanvalen did, then I think they should be dealt with, yes.

Warning points are a conceptually viable alternative, but it would also need to be set up so it were more than a "slap on the wrist" for someone who was unlikely to commit the action again. There needs to be some form of action taken for one-time offenders, otherwise it's a "free pass" ticket.

Maybe, 2 or 3 warning points equals a ban, and a one-month suspension for each violation? (You have to admit, what he posted was an extreme violation).

Also, in response to what happened, depending on what he ("Melvin the Jerk") posted, I may have agreed with banning him, but giving warning points to people just for saying he "shouldn't have been banned", assuming they didn't use similiar vulgarity (assuming that was the reason), is unjust.

man, for a guy who never even saw the post, you seem pretty upset. relax, everything was done tongue in cheek. a lot of the posts of yours that i've read have been good. your analogy to crime was a good one, albeit overdone. but that fact you are an admitted bigot makes me care just that little bit less. i have been punished and am willing to accept said punishment.

If you think I don't need sarcasm to post, you really haven't been paying attention.


I THINK the system is 25 points to a ban, unless it changed when they revamped the site. If you really want to "slap them on the wrist", giving them 24 points, so that they know that one more ####-up and they're out of here, seems just. But I think banishment for this seems a little bit too harsh. Immediate banishment should be reserved for people doing such things as having multiple accounts, spambots, and people who post the kind of stuff they did WITHOUT REASON. As bad as the reason you think may be, it wasn't "just for a laugh". It was "Hey, they don't block the word ######. That's wrong. Look at all these horrible words they don't block, put into sentence form." I don't think I would've gone about trying to change the filter the same way, but it's not like they were saying, "You know what I hate? People of a different color than me. In fact, here's what I like to call them."

I think the other things to consider are this:
This happened during the day...Any CHILDREN were (or should've been) in school. If I'm not mistaken, all of the people who were around for this were adults, right? Can we just move on. I get the feeling that "the perps" understand that they've done wrong, and contiued attention to said issue is only spreading word that would otherwise be irrelevant, right?

If we really want to see some bans or whatever, why not have the mods send a PM to all parties that were actually here when this happened (Pretty sure they have a record of this...) and take a silent vote? I'm willing to put money down that most are really apathetic to this. It doesn't have to be larger than it already is, right?

Serial Killers only get famous through paparazzi, and fame only creates copycats.

I'm not upset, although I am offended.

You have to have expected to offend people by posting what you did.

Also, when I refer to myself as a "bigot", I am referring to the fact that I am a fervent Aethist. I am not, however, going around spreading my dislike for the religious. I call it "bigotry" because, from a cultural perspective, what I see as a conflict between philopshies, such as the cold war, the culture would see as me grouping together a large amount of people and judging them unfairly. However, the difference is, unlike, for example, white supremacists, I don't go around degrading those I hate.

Live and Let Live.

So please, don't group me together with other "bigots", I'm using the term more loosely to express that I have viewpoints I consciously choose not to express.

Have you been punished though? I was unaware of any banning or suspension ruling. All I was aware of was the post being removed, which in my eyes is not exactly a "punishment".

Your right, the decision for any action should be taken by those parties involved, and it doesn't need to be done publicly.

I also, am not directly involved. I've simply been responding to a thread, as I see a thread as the people involved making the issue one of public conversation.

I interpreted the thread as asking for everyone's opinion, so I gave mine. In the end, however, it really has nothing to do with me.

No, i think you are involved...As am I, and anyone else who was logged in at the time, and MIGHT HAVE seen what happened. Your points are very relevant, and you represent what might be a silent majority of the Realms viewers. I have no problem with you voivcing your opinion, and if what happened didn't sit well with you, you are absolutley correct to say so.

My perspective is that VSRealms is a community, and thus we should resolve the issue as one. Personally, I feel that the thread being pulled down, and all of those that posted to it were warned and told they messed up basically "fixes" the problem. They don't plan on a repeat offense, and no one else seems to be copying the act. I may be the minority opinion though. If most of Realms at the time wants the guy gone, majority rules, yes?

Your opinion is definitely valued, bro. :)

Consider this one vote for "Shake Hands, Forgive, Be Friends, PLAY CARDS." :grin:

all you seem to be going on is the title of the thread. (in my most southern hick voice)"no white supremacists 'round here but seems like we got us some bigots." LMAO! maybe some were offended because i implied that they were by not having the necessary changes made to the filter. which was the point of the thread, to incur response in order to facilitate change. I think there were a total of 3 views before it was closed down. right or wrong, i did it and will live with the consequences(i did recieve a ban and a warning).

/whew ... worried I may have accidentally turned everyone against me by

A) Making it sound like I had something against seanvalen

(which I don't, I was just unaware of any official punishment, and think SOMETHING has to be done, even if just for principle)

B) Offhandely saying "I'm a bigot".

(which was just my way of saying "I think things I wouldn't post". I don't like have swastikas everywhere, I'm just a flawed human being who hates people that might not really deserve it sometimes)

I agree that there isn't really that risk of them repeating, so you're right, banning may not be necessary. But I think *something* more needs to be done to at least give the look of some kind of punishment.

What about we take away his Avatar?

OH MAN...What about we make him use a Pink Dunce Cap for his next 100 Posts? The possibilities are endless...