Gah, your right. That was a oversight. The Empath errata seems more realistic then, but UDE is so anti-errata after a set has already been released that it may not happen.

Agreed.

It's really Empath that needs the errata here. He's the one really being abused due to his poor wording.

So Ban Frankie.thread has worked. Why not Errata Empath? When the community pushes a specific reaction from UDE it seems to work well in reference to Errata/Ban.

I wish I was half this good at finding broken combos (I'd settle for a 1/10th too).

I think this is officially the Errata Empath thread right now. :)

-Mike

All in favor of errata-ing Empath say "Aye":

The theme of those Hellfire guys is that they can be KO'd for other things, in response to their dying text.

Empath will be banned, not erratad.

Errata on him would not be obvious, since it makes him stand out from the theme.

In all honesty, I'd be fine with EITHER errata or ban. I'll leave it up to everyone else to decide which is more reasonable - as long as we agree that Empath is the problem here.

IMO, I think they could just errata all the Hellfire Hellions that have that wording to a 'common sense' wording that doesnt allow these interactions. While the interaction of koing a Hellion that was already on his way to the KO'd pile to a Raising Hell was cute in limited, it hasnt really seen any application in constructed aside from degenerate decks based around Empath (such as Anthonys PCLA deck using Lazarus Pit, or a Silver Age version using Leslie Thompkins Clinic). Fortunately the Clinic version is terribly inconsistent, so it wont really pose a threat at Sydney, but the new Mordred one could cause plenty of problems in a post Sydney MTU legal Silver Age.

Meh...I'm actually thinking about it, and this deck REALLY doesn't seem bad for the game. It's a combo deck in silver age, so it's a deck some players will be interested in playing, much how some players enjoy rush and others enjoy heavy control.

Things stop this deck. Things like Removed from Continuity on Empath on turn 4. Or just stunning the opponent's board on turn 4. Then there's disruption on the level of Dark Matter Drain, which flat-out gets rid of Join us or Die from the row.

Seems like this deck can be dealt with in SA. We haven't even seen the full set either. Maybe there's an answer there. :/

Correct. As per their general banning pattern, either he'll go, or possibly JUoD will go. The former's more likely, since they can simply make a newer version in a future set to take his place. The errata for him would be such a weird break in logic from the rest of his crew that it's really unlikely they'd go for that... unless they changed it to an 'only once per turn' effect. In fact, if they did that for all the Hellions, that'd keep intent (exploding for a benefit) while preventing foul loop trickery.

Yeah, what's so bad about adding a "this triggers only once per turn" clause?

I'm for that kind of errata. If you're using him correctly, it doesn't change him.

FLT - Foul Loop Trickery

Greatest description ever.

Rep for you.

FLTFTW!

CC

Almost as soon as I wrote it, I thought that'd be a good solution. I'm all aboard the "Hellions Once Per Turn" train, express to Errataville.

that combo never worked, there is no point at which you can activate lazerious pit while empath is stunned since join us or die stuns and recovers the character at the same time.