I gotta go with BigSpooky on this. Oracle on 3, Bats on 4 and supes on 5 is a really strong board. Especially when you add batcomputer. Then Oracle might as well say pick your next three cards every turn. Well not quite but its pretty sick

I to like franke raye and Oracle. However I like to brains > BRawns on turn 4 if need be and At their finest on turn four as well. I think the resource replacement is stronger than the potential card draw that you would gain through Gordon. I don't understand why you don't like playing supes at the four spot do you not play Maggie Swayer? Alfred is a good discard for batman after turn 3.

Interesting. I tried the Barb-Twilight Vigilante-Man of Tomorrow curve briefly and didn't care for it at all. The Batman/Supes plot twists didn't come online until 5, and it seemed like you were conceding the first 3 turns to your opponent, making it fairly easy for them to generate field advantage, since Barb is useless as an attacker. Maybe I was misplaying the deck or had a bad build? Anyway, I've always liked the Batman 3-Last Son 4 builds better. I also like Soaring to New Heights a lot. Attacking without stunning back is always good.

We played a Modern Age tournament tonight, and I was playing a Flash deck while one of my friends was playing my World's Finest deck. He had no problem getting all the cards he needed to own me hard two matches in a row (once in swiss, once in the finals). He kept negating key effects (Bat Got Your Tongue), foiling attacks (Indestructible), and attacking without stunning back (At Their Finest, Soaring).

Being an early advocate of the deck, there is no way ANY other character should be your three drop other than Barbara. You take the early beats and set up huge board/damage swings on turns 4 and 5. At the PC and in testing, I was usually down 20 damage or so, and then won games on turn 6 with lots of pumps and recovery.

The new 5 drop Supes is better stats (obv) than MoT, but the loyalty is just too shaky. I would run 1 of him, and if I get him out, I will. You want a curve that is all Gotham low drops, and you find that you usually don't drop a Superman character until turn 5, where loyalty would be a problem. MoT all the way.

Where is Dinah at 6?? She is such a strong finisher, with 14 atk and being hidden. Pyrogen is just not good enough. You want your opponent to attack into superman so you can not take stun damage initially, which means you don't want any other visible characters. The deck wants evens so on 6 I guess it's not such a big deal, but Dinah on 6 is the finisher all day long.

My updated deck looks like this:

4 Alfred
4 Krypto
3 Huntress
4 Barbara Gordon
1 Batman, Founding
4 Batman, Twilight
1 Superman, Last Son
1 Superman, Metropolis
3 Superman, MoT
1 Cassandra Cain
1 Batman, Shadow
1 Dinah Laurel Lance
1 Two-Face
1 Superman, Deterrent

4 The Hook Up
4 Bat-Signal
2 Man Who Has Everything
4 Bat Got Your Tongue
4 At Their Finest
4 Brains & Brawn
4 Savage Beatdown
2 Flying Kick
2 Best of the Best


Best of the Best is personal preference, I love it because of how bad it wrecks Kree, but its up to you.

-Keith W.

In response to D-Block and Hoops, I actualy played the 3/4 Bats/Supes curve until I saw Keith's build posted on the match coverage for VsSystem.com. I've done a lot of analysis on both decks, and found that the Oracle/Bats/Supes curve is more consistent and much more powerful in the late game (thanks in large part to the accelerated card draw).

D-Block: This is pretty much like every other disagreement that we've ever had. Still, I have to hand it to you that Maggie Sawyer is really good. In all fairness to you, I have been trying to revise my build to include her in it.

Hoops: I've said that the curve choice is a matter of preference. The 3 Bats/4 Supes curve gives you a more balanced game, but doesn't really give you any real momentum. On the other hand, the 3 Oracle/ 4 Bats/5 Supes curve just keeps getting stronger as the game progresses. I've found that as long as you don't lose on turn four or earlier, you aren't going to lose... period. By turn five, you should have every card that you need to win any matchup. Also, while I agree that Oracle isn't as effective as Bats for attacking, she's a perfect candidate for exhausting to various effects in the deck (specifically, Bat-Signal and Bat Got Your Tongue?) She was also great with Level 12 Intelligence - I am EXTREMELY sad to see it rotate out of Modern Age.

I know you've done a lot more with the deck than I have, so I would tend to give more weight to your ideas than mine, Spooky. I tried your build briefly after reading the article you wrote about it, lost 2 or 3 games with it, then quickly went back to my old build. Can't remember what I was testing it against (Doomed Earth? Kree/Inhumans?).

In any case, I need to try it your way again. One of our crew is probably going to play WF at the Modern event in CA, so I'd like to come up with a little better build than what I have now.

Well, it all depends on what deck you are playing against. If you are playing against a mid- to late-game deck, the Oracle variant will usually be stronger. Against a rush deck, though, it doesn't matter how many cards you can draw in the late game if they are able to beat you on turn three or four.

This is one reason that I've been experimenting with more adaptive builds of the deck. Last Son of Krypton obviously excels at absorbing damage. Against aggressive decks, you can drop Batman on three, then Superman on four and try to stave off damage with copies of At Their Finest and Brains and Brawn. After you've held off their attacks, you can sub in Oracle for 3-drop Bats and recruit a higher cost Batman. Against less aggressive decks, you can default to the Oracle curve.

I'm a bit on the fence about Soaring to New Heights. Of course, it's better in your build because you generally have Superman in play by turn four; where I don't usually see him until turn five.

I think both builds have merit; and that the best build would be one that can effectively integrate the best aspects of both decks. The danger, however, is building a deck that tries to do too much and ends up being les effective than either deck.

Thats Currently how my Build is and its works pretty well, Running 4 Batman and 3 Oracle, that way I can sub out when it becomes obv that Batman isnt needed, like agaist decks with no Row Dependance. I useally Keep him out for 1-2 Turns if I dont know what they are playing to get a Feel for thier deck, then Sub out For Oracle, before playing Batman 6.

You do notice the Difference between not playing Oracle at 3 and playing Batman but Bat Computer helps quite a bit making up for Quantity with Quality.

Oracle on 3? Nonononono, she is called Babs. Period

:p

That's great and all, but...

WF is more of a reactive deck than a proactive deck. I still run 3 oracle's to sub out batman later, but I'd honestly rather have a 5/5 Founding Member Batman hidden on 3 than a 3/3 Oracle on 3. Card Draw is great, but Brains and Brawn is only usuable as eraly as turn 4 with Bats on 3, and it's really one of the most important cards in the deck. Considering agaisnt an off curve matchup, recovering superman on 4 really hurts them, and I'd much rather try to kill of one of their drops starting turn 3 then turn 4.

Like I said, Oracle is great, but considering the reactivity of the deck (as opposed to the proactivity of other decks), WF's ability to a) run a no cost Supes, b) get Brains and Brawn online at turn 4, and c) have bats sit in the hidden area and blow stuff up is way better to me than having Oracle sit there and draw me 1 card per turn.

And Twilight Vigilante does nothing to the deck.

You mean OTHER than doubling the damage on each of his attacks? Well yeah... other than that, he's worthless. ;)

I agree that the deck is designed to be reactive. However, it's not possible to be a reactive deck if you don't have the cards to react with. This is why accelerated card draw is so critical to the deck. It's all good and well to say "Being able to play At Their Finest and Brains and Brawn on turn four is AWESOME!!!" But if you don't actually have those cards in hand on four, it doesn't matter how great they are... you can't play them from your deck!

Batman, Founding Member can be great if you really need disruption or a big character on three and four. If you can survive without it, however, it is FAR better to play Oracle on three and set up your plays for turns five and six. These are the turns where you will take control of a game; and often where you will win a number of your games.

After Keith posted his list I wasn't too shy posting our list from WA state.

It was revamped and inspired by both Keith after I chatted with em and saw em play the deck at INDY and than after Barnes(SP?) posted his list after INDY.

Keith perfers Best of the Best which is a solid card. But us up here in the rainy Northwest perfered having a tool box of effects for punisher, etc.

Characters: 29

4 Alfred
2 Maggie Sawyer
2 Harvey Bullock
2 Krypto
4 Barbara Gordon
1 Batman, Founding
4 Batman, Twilight
1 Superman, Last Son
1 Superman, Metropolis
3 Superman, MoT
1 Cassandra Cain
1 Batman, Cape and Cowl
1 Pyrogen
1 Two-Face
1 Superman, Deterrent

Plot Twists: 31

4 The Hook Up
4 Bat-Signal
2 Man Who Has Everything
3 Bat Got Your Tongue
2 From the Darkness
3 At Their Finest
3 Brains & Brawn
4 Savage Beatdown
2 At your service
3 Against All Odds
1 Only Human

ATF / B&B -> At Their Service?

And The Hook-Up drawing cards?

Drawing cards is fine, but that at the cost of losing a 3 drop who can swing in and potentially force them to kill one of their drops is much better than a 3/3 who can't really do much.

Also, off-curve decks will beat your face in before you can set up these winning turns, and if they hit LSoK, you can't hit B&B cause you don't have Batman. It's sort of an odd scenario, where with oracle you can't play it, and with Bats, you may not have it. But the odds of getting it on turn four aren't too skewed for one as they are for both, meaning having Batman is just better vs off curve.

And now with IG back, if you rely on dropping Oracle, they may get better results because you might not be using her effect and are stuck with a 3/3, where as either of the hidden Batmen can actually pitch cards. And if you're running Total Anarchy (which I'm considering running one of), hidden Batman is much more dangerous to any deck than a 3/3 Oracle who could get herself killed.

Just thought I'd point out that you can't search for At Their Finest with At Your Service and play it on the same turn.

no you can't, but I'm just saying out that you can get it without oracle