I'd like to take this opportunity to pluck out this part of the quote. Experienced eXiles player, now since eXiles just got printed in this set, how experienced is anyone with this deck, I'd also like to point out that the 'guy' who is not getting beat while playing eXiles is a Pro Circuit Champ as opposed to IDK almost anyone else you will be playing against at almost any tournament almost anywhere. Vs. touted for a long time that the best players win the most matches as is proved out by Patrick going 3-3 like me at the Vs UDE Day Saturday, while Weapon-X piloted by Travis (redoscar) won out on the day.

I just say don't despair - make your best deck play your heart out hope for good draws and better match ups don't make any mistakes and always make them think you have one more manuever up your sleeve...oh and American Maid also went 3-3 with an eXiles very optimized build.

In silver you can always rush too.

Hmm.. Now that I think of it I could of won earlier vs the illuminati/barnes deck. I wasn't experience vs that type tech (only tested one match up the night before vs barnes) so I basically winged it for the turn 6 win.
Looking back I could of won turn 4. Heh You learn something new...

Also are you suggesting that only exiles can beat exiles in the current environment?

This could be true since the deck I ran went undefeated and the only deck that really gave me trouble was the mirror match in the top 8.

How much damage, on average, do you do by turn 4? Wolverine consistently does 60+ damage by turn 4.

Well wolverine would never attack thanks to miguel o'hara putting web in his eye.

That's why the Wolverine deck runs B.P.R.D. Signal Device. There are a lot of things out there that can shut him down if you don't protect him.

Which is why I'm wondering how much damage the Exiles deck does on average by turn 4. I haven't played it or seen it played enough. If Exiles can't do more damage than Wolverine, though, then that deck should have about a 50% chance of winning.

For the record... I hate that wolverine as much as blink.

Exiles, vs a hidden deck that attacks directly? About 72, without even breaking a sweat (burn average 28, 5 attackers, average 8 attack, + 2 2-attack attackers). That's a pretty poor draw too (1 common bond, 1 Beak's or Panoptichon). Both decks are goldfishing one another for damage more-or-less, Wolvie requires a lot more to hit 60. On good draws I have done 100+ before. I have yet to ever lose an aggro on aggro matchup with Exiles, regardless of init; and I've played it many times. In fact, I'm only theorizing that TNB is fast enough to take me down.

I've played against Wolvie, never vs Wolvie + BRPD (never played vs Silver Wolvie). They'd need stuff to lock out Miguel (or if I get init, Warp Shards and Miguel), and if they are consistantly hitting that stuff their damage is down.

Happy to play sometimes if you're online.

Hmm, yeah, Exiles are ridiculous. We can play but I guess it probably doesn't matter if 70 damage on turn 4 is a weak draw for you. My current Silver Wolverine decklist, btw:

Characters: (27)

1.) 4x - Moonstar, danielle moonstar / 4x - Speedball, painmonger / 3x - Hank Pym, initiative instructor
2.) 4x - Tania Belinskya, cold warrior
3.) 4x - Wolverine, agent of shield
4.) 4x - Samantha Parrington / 4x - Lady Deathstrike, opportunistic killer

Plot Twists: (30)

1.) 4x - Flying Kick / 4x - Crackshot
2.)
3.) 4x - Adamantium Claws / 4x - Call in a Favor / 3x - The "B" Team / 3x - Cannibal Tech
4.) 4x - Trouble with Dinosaurs / 4x - Savage Beatdown

Equipment: (3)

0.) 3x - B.P.R.D. Signal Device

I'll play a Silver Age event next week and a Golden Age event the following, both of them with Blink not banned. We are trying out both format to see how broken the deck can be.

In May we'll hold an European VS System event in Italy and we have enough time to get to a final decision about Blink and his nasty followers.

The solution is to not errata Blink to a recuit effect, but to use an errata UDE used in the past to nerf nasty combo a la Fiddler.

This home made errata stops not one but three cards. Errata on Blink DOESN'T stop Cable+Mariko or Cable+Sage broken combo so here is my solution (actually under study):

Blink, Earth-295 - Clarice Ferguson
Shift
When Blink enters play, if you have not controlled a character with the same name this turn, put a shift counter on each shifted card you own.

Mariko Yashida - Sunfire, Earth-2109
Shift
When Mariko Yashida enters play, if you have not controlled a character with the same name this turn, each opponent loses 2 endurance for each character you control that entered play this turn.

Sage, Earth-616
Shift
When Sage enters play, if you have not controlled a character with the same name this turn, draw a card for each other character you control that entered play this turn.

What do you think about that?

I have opened a new thread on this here in the Rules Section

The Cable combos aren't really proven; I played vs the Cable deck and wasn't terribly impressed... it still only deals 6-8 with Mariko and draws 2-3 with Sage, which even with a body slide to do it again is "fine". I think we take things one step at a time, stop Blink's shinanigans (I'd prefer to make it a recruit effect, but your errata may work fine as well... it does allow for people to move in and out between 3 and 4). Either way, that should take the Exiles decks down enough to the point where other higher-tier decks can compete.

Again, I'm more for start from a micro level and move out sort of route. If Blink alone doesn't stop the sillyness, we can look at others; but I think the deck just becomes "competitive" if you leave Sage/Mariko alone and take Blink-ness out of the picture. I do still want them to be good (heck, I read the comic series after I saw them, and it's actually really good; I'm going to miss VS turning me onto new comics :)).

What's your name on messenger (whichever you use most)?

The thing that bothers me, and honestly irritates me, Dave, is that you talk like you are the end all be all. Like Erick mentioned before, not everyone can and will run an Exiles deck. Let me point a few things out for you:

1. Not everyone who is playing in a tournament is Dave "I'm the Leader of the World." So, naturally, you will get some play mistakes, which can net the opposing player a win.

2. Not everyone can afford to build an Exiles deck, that much is proven.

3. Not everyone wants to play an Exiles deck. You forget that this is not the PC anymore, so not everyone is as cutthroat as you. It's the time of the casual player, like it or not. So, you will get more theme decks and pet decks than "good decks."

4. Just because a deck you tested against or played can't beat you or the Exiles deck, doesn't mean a different deck can beat it or a different player can't beat you.

5. Facts are what we go by, as in results of ACTUAL tournaments. Not just theory. The last two REAL tournaments had Exiles not as dominant as everyone thinks. Sure, Ralph won his, and that's a testament to his skill, but there was another Exiles deck that got in at 3-3. In Cali, we had no Exiles decks make it to the Top 8, and there were 3. Refer to the previous 4 points for support.

6. Frankly, MWS games/tournaments are not representative of real tournaments. In fact, I don't think the majority of players now follow the "metagame" in that thing, much less worry about it.

So, in conclusion, unless Ryan Jones, Michael Jacob, Vidi Wijaya, Jason Hager, etc. are walking in your tournaments, I wouldn't sweat it. (Of course, no offense to the current crop of players in the game, I'm just trying to make a point.)

Hmm you make some very interesting points there which I have to say I do agree with. I still feel that it is possible for exiles to be beaten, if not by a certain deck but by out playing it. Your right when you stated that not everyone can make the optimal choices when running exiles. (Its not as easy to run as people think is is, especially when you playing against a teched out deck.)

After playing in the ny tournament and reviewing my plays I found that i myself with the extensive testing of weeks with the deck that didn't make all the optimal plays in many situations. Even now still learning to play the deck better. I was just lucky enought that my opponents didn't capitalize on them.

After reviewing the weekend I feel that blink really isn't the problem. there are anwsers to swarm but as of now there really isn't an anwser to burn that is effective enough. I feel the real problem is mariko not blink. If anything where to be done to "fix" the deck I would say mariko is the problem card.

I was just wondering do you believe something should be done with the exiles and if so what you think is the true enabler for negative play experiences that player from all around are stating.

I think he likes you Dave.......quick, protect your ###-ets!

Co'mon ladies.......can't we all just get a bong?

Dang... old school RealmWorx-FTN rivalry!!!

With all due respect to Leader... I do agree with Patrick in that real tournament play is different than MWS online casual play.

Deck theory and play reality often differ in a tournament atmosphere. Since there aren't enough hyper-competitive tournaments (or even hyper-competitive players) left for VS... it really is hard to tell how busted Exiles truly is.

It's all relative really... so does this mean the Quicksilver is no longer broken since there is something that is better? Has EvilDave tried to make decks that can beat Exiles? Or is he just fine-tuning Exiles based on what he comes up against on MWS?

I think Leader has a great amount of knowledge and experience when it comes to VS... but I do think his generalizations are a bit much. I've read where Dave dislikes the WoW TCG and WoW minis games but I've found them to be quite good. The minis game moreso in how it utilizes positioning, card effects, figure stats and dice percentages is well-balanced and the theme of the different armies is very good. Yet his comments present both games to be bad as a fact... and I think that's where the "end all be all" vibe comes from.

This happens a lot in VS. I remember when certain people were questioning running Quick Kill AND Finishing Move in my MKO build... yet after ChicagoMW... that's what all the MKO decks ran. I'm not saying this to say I was the first... I'm just saying that actual testing and playing against a variety of decks led to that decision and the people who questioned it didn't have enough data to validate their doubts.

That being said... Exiles might very well be broken. But already, there is a question as to what is actually broken about it. It took real tournaments to determine that it's not so much Blink... but the burn component. Non-interactive damage is a rule-breaker... and abuse of it is what is problematic.

So to answer the question of what beats Exiles in Silver Age? A better player.