Getting more DC sets would make my day. JLU was a great set and probably my favorite within the last few years, even if I didn't understand or try to get into the whole team-up mechanic.

I get what you mean about storyline representations being fresh takes on old characters, but what bugs me is that it limits it to only characters from said story. I liked F4 and FF:FF because there was a lot of character representation from a bunch of different storylines and timelines, like Earth X thing, Fantastic Four Wolverine, Doom 2099, High Evolutionary and First Appearance Dr. Doom. None of this would've been possible if they'd stuck to just the Doomed FF storyline, but then again the large difference between the FF and Avengers is that an Avengers storyline usually has about 5 metric tons of side characters to work with for commons and uncommons.

Since no one asked: I'm perfectly fine if WK never produces another Iron Man again.

And yet, some of the all-time greatest sculpts are unobtainable outside of chase/con-ex/SR.

I think the F4 Cosmic Clash is a great example of effective sculpt reuse. I think the quality of the figures in that set are really exemplary, and they have been used for 3 products: Cosmic Clash, Deep Cuts, and now the Play-at-Home LEs. Now that is how you reuse a good sculpt!

It is a crime that some sculpts ever only got used once, while others clutter up the lower rarities.

And before we prematurely conclude that elaborate, detailed sculpts drive booster sales, I think we should ask whether the real driver of cost is sculpt quality or competitive viability.

Was not expecting hard facts, but they are a welcome inclusion.

In a utopian world we'd get excellent sculpts for every rarity, but I understand what you mean about the real issue being competitive viability usually coinciding with the sculpt quality.

The sculpt reuses in question are an excellent point and example of what we can do with them, I genuinely love each usage but I think there's also another point to consider: Coloring

I have no idea whether the LEs are illustrated the same as the Cosmic Clash, but the Deep Cuts lack of coloring is actually a huge incentive to me. I like the plain white, it looks premium oddly enough. And if I want to paint it to match his early colors or his current run's colors, I can.

Coloring the same sculpt differently, as I put it in a reply earlier in this thread, can have a substantial impact on how it's received. At least from my point of view.

I'm not sure if it costs a lot to recolor or color more elaborately, but if it doesn't then I'd really like to see that better implemented on sculpt reusage.

I think it's been pointed out before that not everyone has to get everything. I mean if it's too much for you, I guess don't buy? I like to get most of it myself and there are points where that's hard to keep up with but if there's something I really don't want, I can skip it.

That said, I'd love more variety & new characters but I understand marketing what sells best. If it keeps selling, they'll keep making it.

In a perfect world we'd get modern remakes of themes we love everytime they fall into golden age, but I understand what you mean about marketing being the prime mission.

Wizkids is in a really tough spot monetization-wise and honestly I cannot blame them in the least for capitalizing on the few right decisions they've made.

I feel like it's gonna get worse before it gets better for us older players, but I'm hoping if they can pick up their feet then they'll get to fixing some of the more niche and player-oriented issues.

There was some odd coloring reuse in the past. While giving us two paints for the same character like Wolverine is always more welcome than no difference (See first 5 pieces in each rarity in 15th Anniversary sets), World's Finest gave us Major Force and Metamorpho using the same sculpt. Did it look right? Not really. Was it a great sculpt? No. But it was an interesting way to get both characters into the set. Speaking of that, the common prime slot for that set was Guardian and Captain Atom, another innovative and unexpected sculpt reuse.

I appreciate you posting this because I don't know the cost of running business issues WK faces, so this is helpful. However, if you or anybody else knows, could you explain to me why they need to crank them out in rapid fire? Is the mold going to go bad if they don't use it? Is mold storage cost prohibitive? I'd think you'd be better off having cool molds made, using them a couple times in a set, then bringing them back in a couple years and repeat.

At the same time, I can also see the possibility that WK's funds are managed poorly so they have to milk every new asset they have to be able to afford the new molds.

But I'd love an insider view or at least an experienced business view on how this works.

When discussing sculpt reuse, my mind always turns to how Toy Biz aggressively reused sculpts to come up with variations on a character or another character entirely.

Superfriend has some good examples, but you could also look at the Chaos War LEs which made Silver Surfer into Spider-Man and Crystal into Invisible Woman.

I know people get hung up on WK "cheaping out," or on how a sculpt reuse might not provide a perfectly accurate costume, but it's never bothered me much.

-J

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that it's nice to have sculpt variation, but sculpt reuse is fine so long as the sculpts themselves are interesting. If Wizkids finds the perfect Wolverine pose, I'm fine seeing it reused a bunch. That's certainly the case with Iron Man poses in sets.

Honestly, if reusing old sculpts verbatim made sets less expensive and updated old characters, I'd be all for it!

I think everyone is in agreement that saturation is a problem in Heroclix. I also think that's a major factor in why people were so turned off by X-Men: Rise and Fall. So much of the set felt like a rehash of House of X, which already left a bad taste due to distribution. We really didn't need more (almost identical versions) of a lot of these characters.

With saturation in mind, I don't mind multiple versions of a character that can utilize being a different figure. For example, there are a lot of ways that you could portray Green Lantern as his ring could give him virtually any power in Heroclix. With characters like Wolverine, though, you get basically the same dial every time with maybe a new set specific trait. That is what feels unnecessary.

A previous poster mentions that it's important to have a recurring line of popular characters in new sets, and I agree with that. What I don't agree with is when we have 10 different modern versions that all basically do the same thing. Heroclix could definitely open itself up to more character variance should their license(s) permit them to do so.

Oh my god I never made the connection between Silver Surfer and LE Spider-Man, but now it makes so much sense.

This has always been my biggest issue with oversaturation.

It's not necessarily that it leads to less of that piece until they decide to make another after 5 years, it's that we bleed them dry creativity-wise! Which leads to them waiting another 5 years.

Good example: Iron Mans.

When was the last time you saw an Iron Man that made you think "Ah that's an interesting take on his practically endless suits and applications", I liked the shifting focus versions but honestly when it comes to special powers the last time I felt interested was the Earth X version, which isn't 616 Tony.

If we're talking 616 Tony it'd be the ADW super rare, I liked the armor prison mechanic, and the rotating powers was a smart move even if it was more limiting than I'd like.

It's not annoying that we get an Iron Man every non X-Men Marvel set, it's annoying that he never does anything for the character (unlike the Green Lantern point you made).

Sculpt is the cherry on top.

I'm gonna look into Wizkids business side of things to try and see how they actually make the sculpts, because the one thing I have noticed is that they're 3D rendered in recent years for the site photo compared to the older physical clix pictures.

I'll see if I can bring some more new evidence to this thread, and thanks to you and everyone for the input so far!