Maybe we'll get a blanket ruling that PC figures always have clear LOF to players and are always considered to be within 10 squares of each player? That'd clear up the issue that the roll isn't tied to a figure...

The fact that this discussion is even happening is RIDICULOUS. Some people apparently have too much time on their hands.

I understand how the wording can be confusing, but what ever happend to using common sense?

The Undercover PD guy has a wing and not a boot, but we all know he can not fly. If you can TK up to KC people and you drop someone next to KC people, why can't you PC the roll. It is not like you are "getting around" the rule because you already can w/ TK and a taxi.

Just how I feel about it.

You'll get no arguments from me. I posted in the beginning of the thread that I believed you *could* reroll it. But when you inspect the wording you see the inconsistency. Is it silly? Possibly yes. But is it something a judge may get asked by a player who wishes to gain some amount of advantage over their opponent? Definitely yes. Thus it should be clarified to try to keep everyone playing in the same manner.

Lets look at this a little differently:

PROBABILITY CONTROL (optional): Once during your turn, this character allows you the player to reroll one die or dice roll. Use the rerolled result instead of the original result. This character must be within 10 squares of the character performing the action and have a clear line of fire to that character. In this case, the character that is moving that initiated the die roll Also, you may at any time during one opponent’s turn use this character to force him or her another player to reroll one die or dice roll. Use the rerolled result instead of the original result. This character must be within 10 squares of the character performing the action and have a clear line of fire to that character. In multiplayer games, you may use this character’s Probability Control only once when it is not your turn.


In other words, the player is always moving the characters using actions, and the player always rolls the dice, as clearly pointed out in PC. PC requires LOF to the character performing the action. In this case, the character that is being moved is performing the action, so the PCer would have to have LOF and range to the character that is moving.


To me, it seams quite simple. You can PC the KC roll if you have LOF and range to the character that is moving.

That's my not so humble opinion anyway....

Another example, to add fuel to the fire:

Again, the player is making the roll, not the character. And we already know that PC can be used on attack rolls.

Anyone care to rebut that one...?

I'm not disagreeing with anyone here. I'm just stating a fact. At a bare minimum, it is under discussion on the Judges Forum. At worst, you cannot do it. DO I agree with that? No, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still being discussed, and TPB are leaning towards "No PC the KC".

"No PC the KC" is pretty silly. Clearly there is a character to which LOS can be drawn and clearly only players ever roll the dice.

Threads like these really clear up why people hate lawyers.

If it is decided that you cannot PC the KC roll, then I would seriously question the future of the game....

I don't see how there could be any serious question. I can come up with more examples.....


OK, this one isn't quite as clear, but the implication is that you, the player, are to roll the die.

Again, it talks about you, the player, rolling the dice, not the character.

From the PAC:
Admittedly, some powers aren't as clear as others, but the implications are quite clear. In each of these cases, PC is allowed. At least some of these situations specifically calls for the player to roll the dice, and others are merely implied.

I truly don't see how any other conclusion could be drawn.....

Amen, brother.

Three cheers for Psylockeslover. Get that man a stripper!

And if I ever catch one of my clix rolling the dice for me, the player, I will severely reprimand the offending clix.

I agree completely. I am afraid, however, that the RA will decide against a plain reading of the rules (and against common sense). Because you KNOW that some people are arguing persuasively that they don't want you to be able to do this, and are hanging their powergaming, loophole-seeking arguments on the use of "you" in the power description.

It's been happening since the game was released, and I don't see it stopping anytime soon, I'm sorry to say.

If "the designers" want the KC roll to be immune to PC, then they should change the Power description to read that the KC player makes the roll (keeping it similar to a Skrull roll, or SuperSenses and Impervious). Then the KC roll couldn't be re-rolled because the roll would not be made by the player whose turn it is.

Color me impressed if they go out of their way to make such a common sense change though, if they do decide to exempt KC from PC.

Or, I don't know, they could decide to leave the g&$ d(*# rules alone!

(me, taking a deep breath)

(me, holding my breath for WK to stop changing the rules)

:knockedou (me, unconscious from holding my breath too long)

And then call Letterman...there has to be money to be made in there somewhere if a clix fig is rollin' bones...

Truly. Thinking about it from a more common sensical standpoint might be helpful here. If the player is not always the one doing the rolling, then who is? The character? I'll concede on all points involving PC rulings the first time ANYONE can show me his or her little plastic miniature roll even one die.