Why, thank you; without a canvas such as yourself, I wouldn't nearly have been so successful with the condescension.

Now, this goes back to why you're so very ala mode Gummo, but your problem in this is that you are trying to make an argument of the type: "What you think is wrong".

There are two ways to make such an argument; the first (which would be the correct way) is to point out that your opposite suffers from a misapprehension of fact. This takes the form of "You think the state is X, when it is in fact Y; this can be seen by consulting [reference]."

This is, needless to say, not what you are doing. Instead, you are engaging in the second (the incorrect) way; that is that my subjective evaluation of a commonly appreciated fact is wrong, because it does not agree with your own subjective evaluation. This can be characterized by phrases such as; "I can't see the sense in complaining about it", or "[t]hat's just my perspective" or (the magnanimous form) "I don't mind that you have a different perspective, but...".

The phrase "I can't see the sense in complaining about it" is especially illustrative: it reveals that the stator not only does not understand the subjective evaluation of the opposite, but because the stator does not understand, no legitimate alternative view can exist.

Since it's clear that an insuperable barrier exists regarding intrinsic values, I shall stipulate to whatever point it was that you believe you are making. Having thus disposed of that matter, I will restate the question I asked in my earlier post;

Seriously, does anyone have some hidden information that these pieces will be generally available earlier then the end of the year? The same availability language quoted above is used in all three posts.

I am unclear who the "he" is above, but certainly I asked you something directly;

Note that this quote is from a post that is an explicit reply to Muncho's post.

No hidden information but since my post states by the end of the year, it could mean this month or next month or August after GenCon because that is what it means to me and I wrote it. You are assuming that it will be the worst case scenario of December and that is simply not true because it is an assumption that you are making. Your statement could end up being true but I could assume that someone is going to give me a million dollars and that might come true as well.....

Actually, I did both. The second path was taken as an attempt at compromise. It was after the first point was well made, and you've never attempted to refute it. Instead, you seem to prefer obfuscation that doesn't actually support your point, but instead creates a straw man for you to knock down.

So I'll state my main point again, for the third time: You stated there was a group of people out there that "a) have no reasonable chance of receiving this piece,
and
b) have interest in it."

And I again state that, based on the evidence we have today (yes, actual evidence, as opposed to your reaching assumptions and spurious analogies) that group does not exist. That statement was the crux of your argument, and you've never gone back to support it. Whether or not the pieces won't be available until the end of the year is irrelevant. "The end of the year" (or even "next year") does not equal "no reasonable chance of receiving". Your argument has no legs.

Yeah, I was referring to TF, who Krusticlese was referring to in-kind.

Even so, I did respond regardless:

Is that clear enough for you?

Here is how I think it will go down.

The pieces will become available after the convention season is over.

1. When will that be? For Heroclix that would be after GenCon when a new world champ will be crowned and the Heroclix yearly cycle begins anew.

2. What makes tchipley believe that? Because doing it after GenCon the figures will still be a hot commodity and of interest to folks. Also it doesn't take away from the convention attendees value for attending as it relates to Heroclix. If they wait until the end of the calendar year we will be too many sets deep and have our eyes on other prizes that will be obtainable outside of conventions.

What reason should anyone believe tchipley? Because in relation to how wizkids conducts itself at conventions I have a really accurate track record of forecasting how it will go down.

I predicted (actually suggested) after Galactus Gate, that a raffle system be adopted to allow a more fair distribution of the limited edition figures. Also that some tournaments be held so that players who didn't win one in the raffle could have a chance to battle for one.

I predicted that Johnny Thunder would be made available in ways other than the Con once the con season was concluded.

I don't go half cocked making these predictions nor do I make them very often, so please try not to turn WK's announcement into something to aggravate other members of the forums.

"Since it's clear that an insuperable barrier exists regarding intrinsic values, I shall stipulate to whatever point it was that you believe you are making. "

Well, it's clear in the sense of being clearly not very helpful, while at the same time reinforcing Krusticlese' point in the matter.

But, hey, if tchipley is correct about after GenCon then... oh, if he's correct I'm still rotated. But, you did get to tell people who's situations you couldn't possibly know that they were "leaping to conclusions and posting subjective speculations as potential fact with very, very little basis". So that's something.

Welp, nothing to do now but wait for the announcement; right now the chance of getting these (for some of us, yes, yes,) seems to be between slim and none, so let's see if Slim leaves town.

What's clear to me is that you are impervious to reason.

Don't worry about Munch, I am sure he will have the horsemen shipped to his house by WK just like the BnB Black Lanterns the same week as GenCon

Even were that true (it's not), your post just smacks of sour grapes.

I dunno, man. Maybe you should just stop arguing with these guys. I know and understand how you must limit the information you give us, just in case you thought nobody does.

I hear ya, and I appreciate the sentiment.

No sweat. I'm also not denigrating what they say (or trying not to at any rate), but for your part nothing is to be gained. It's clear they aren't going to change their minds, and i'm sure you'd rather talk about heroclix than the NDA aspect of HeroClix.

So you're conceding the point that the group you say you are in doesn't actually exist, given the information we have. Cool.

Oh, so you're not actually conceding anything, but continuing to beat your nonsense drum of doom and gloom, despite the evidence. Got it.

Okay, I'm done. If there's anyone who is actually willing to have an INTELLIGENT discussion on this topic, I'm very interested in doing so.

See, that's the thing, I am, shall we say, more then passing familiar with the elements of a standard NDA. I am well familiar with the possible penalties for being judged in breach of such an agreement... which is why the first rule (or, put another way, it's what the attorney doing the briefing should say first) is: don't get cute.

Of course, to paraphrase Tyler Durden, the first rule of NDAs might also be: You do not talk about what's under NDA, you don't so much as pass wind in its general direction. Unfortunately, bids gotta fly, fish gotta swim, Muncho gotta be , Which leads to the next bit...

Of course there are sour grapes! You're taunting us with the fact you know something us hoi polloi don't, there is every appearance that you're going to get something that we want, and some of us have very real reasons to think we aren't getting said item, and we want it!

Let me, for a moment, peel back the veil: I'm going to be unavailable in a few months, and when I say unavailable, I mean unavailable. I realize that some people (who shall remain brainless) refuse to believe that such a condition can even exist; I'm not particularly inclined to divulge why, because, as you realize, there are things other then NDAs that constrain disclosure.

So where does that leave me? I see the preview for the OG Horsemen, I think "huh, that would be cool, and we can get them.... ah crap", cause "by the end of the year" to me, mean, "end of the year".

But there is Muncho, saying that people are overreacting, that folks are being too negative. So I think, "maybe there is a chance, maybe I missed something", but all we get is some people know... but they can't say. Great, really useful, not at all frustrating.

Then we get this announcement. So, these LEs are going to be prizes at GenCon (August 4-7); that seems a pretty good sign that they aren't going to be publicly available before then. Since, after all, giving away prizes that people may already have seems... not all that cool. That pretty much rules them out for me.

Now, is not getting these GSX LEs with GSX the worst thing evar? Of course not. If they are coming out in August, missing them won't even be the worst thing to happen to me that month, not by a long shot. Am I a liiiiiiitle bit vinegary about that? You betcha.

Am I angry with Muncho? How could I be. Muncho is Muncho, as Mr.A would say.