I don't think this was answered (if possible to answer now), so I would just like to reiterate it via quotes.

Well, it only took me 2 & 1/2 hrs to read this whole thing. Okay so maybe I skimmed some parts, but it grew like 4 pages as I was reading it...

Now I really like that Hellboy Banner ontop of the site.

"VS goes to Hell"

Now how true can that statement be...

Bah! Reading is overrated! Context too. I say just jump to the last three posts and state the obvious.
Edit: I'm getting a 'Teenage Musician' banner. Does that mean I should go back in time and learn how to play the guitar?

Funniest thing I've seen all night and I'm pissed because:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to VOLCOM again.

I already repped you once in this thread but I'm repping you again after I spread the love.

"VS goes to Hell" = "Funny as Hell"

Hey, now that you're a mod, can we still point out when you're being a dick?

When they start doing things right, hey, I'm all about giving them the praise. When MTU cards were awesome, I said they were awesome. But they are not doing things right now. They are doing things very slightly less wrong.

By "less wrong", I mean they just about completely changed their official position on competitive play after making us all wait through two consecutive major product releases plus Hellboy and offered a new model which - and this was completely evident to anybody who's followed the discussions on Hobby League play - screws over a great number of players, both competitive and casual, and is dependent on the goodwill of store owners, a demographic VS has not been particularly considerate of over the past few years.

Since the announcement six hours or so ago, I've gotten about a dozen emails and IMs from Toronto players - regulars, semi-regulars, casuals, a good cross-section. Wanna know what the "holy #### this sucks" to "this could be pretty good" ratio is? Five to one. Most of them haven't even read this thread; they read the Metagame post because they don't follow Realms at all. They can all do basic math; less money is being put into OP, a lot less money, and competitive play is going to suffer because of it. And they all like competitive play; even the casual players like big tournaments, because big tournaments are fun. And now? A lot fewer big tournaments.

And honestly, Walter, after the endless parade of "no, just give them time to explain their plans," and "why are you being so impatient, it's still early," and "of course there's going to be 50Ks, quit doomsaying," and countless other comments from you about how people who honestly wanted to know as soon as possible, and yes, who suspected that the delay in official response probably meant bad news, were being insensitive whiners who were the problem and not the solution - honestly, you could have the good grace to wait a day before hopping back up on your high horse and making bad comparisons, because the point is that he's lost credibility because he waited so long.

You don't get good marks in school for a late essay, you know. You can't "correct" lateness without a time machine; Jeff Donais cannot go back in time and warn people who were making up their mind whether to buy DLS that, whoops, there aren't actually going to be any 50Ks for them to play their Mobilizes in, and PC Indy will be one-third value. (I say this, incidentally, as someone who would have bought lots of DLS regardless, and who's going to Sydney and is perfectly content with the prize support there and does not want it reduced, I might add.)

So good for Jeff Donais and UDE that they're finally being forthright, and talking about all the awesome stuff they're going to do, and here's hoping that awesome stuff happens more than, say, the 50Ks they were so excitedly telling us about back in November. See my point? They did a frigging 180 on that. Who's to say they're not going to do it again? Who's to say that entire list of nifty things isn't, like the 50Ks ended up being, wishful thinking? I've been in card games long enough to know that a laundry list of promises is worth precisely jack; I've seen them evaporate time and again, and other than Stu's usual reiteration of "no, UDE is different" (for reasons that honestly escape me), there's no good argument as to why UDE should be particularly trustworthy, especially after they've broken it.

I have done a lot to try and promote VS - for free, I might add, out of a love of the game, I've given away lots and lots of cards to new players and lent out as many rares at tournaments as anybody has - and when somebody asks Jeff a perfectly reasonable question about how they intend to market the game and his go-to answer is "well, the PLAYERS have to do that for us" - that's honestly just insulting. You know what we still haven't heard about? A peep about that official demo program that was promised back in November. How about we hear something about that? How long do we have to wait this time?

I'm not even saying the sky is falling; their initial proposal has flaws in it, but they can be easily rectified with some work. But they've lost my trust; I've gone from a fanboy who was plugging the game to potential players as little as a month ago to wary consumer. And that isn't anybody's fault but theirs.

Kinda said that I have to pick Origins in Columbus or playing Vs. Since I was running some stuff at Origins. On the other hand, I would love to see more "money" players leave, and let the rest of us have some fun.

Most of the people I know and play Vs will be happy playing for t-shirts, playmats or an odd EA every so often. More so, because no one has time to try and make ever PCQ, 10K or what have you. This is what we do for a break a few hours a week. I'm willing to bet when some people leave and stop showing up to the HLs I go to, some of the oder players will return.

Yes. You can point out that he's a dick.

Anyhow,
First of all, Jeff, thank you for your candidness about this issue. I do believe some people are criticizing you instead of the decisions your department made. So its too bad that in many ways, you appear to be the scapegoat, the face attributed to an issue. I will try to choose my words wisely because there's quite a few opinions that I'd like to share and I do hope you read this. It isn't as much getting cut at Indy, or losing the PCQ's, the cancellation of 50k's or any of these changes. Honestly, its not.

In fact, its not really about any of this at all. I feel a little bit underwhelmed because of the direction organized play has taken without gauging the players. I won't lie. City Championships looks extremely thin. Hobby League hasn't displayed success so I don't think this is the answer. While I understand why the changes have been made, the changes can potentially be a slide as it becomes more difficult to justify staying in the game. I guess on further thought that we, as a player base, would like to see a bit more insight to the decision making regarding organized play.

Those people who love the game, they will show up to PC Indy regardless of the cutbacks made. However, I cannot shake the feeling that PC Indy will be the last major event slated for VS. But thats what I will be at PC Indy for. I will travel because it would be a damn shame if I missed out on what would possibly be the last PC there is.

But thats pretty much my thoughts. I hope we can hear more about important potential developments in the future.

Thank you for hearing me out,
Kelvin

Stu's pipe dreams were inaccurate and he will be the first to admit it. His unicorn is happily eating crow this morning. We fell asleep last night, and we have only made it through 14 pages of this. Now it's time to go to work.

Thanks to everyone, for everything. Although I was dead wrong about a great many things, I love the passion that this thread displays and the civil tone of the discussion. Vs. System is a great game and I hope we can survive the rough waters together. Heroclix did it, we can too.

The thing is, they're rebuilding OP from the bottom up. Skipping Hobby League because you're prepping for a PCQ? Well, now Hobby League is the only game in town. Play Hobby League for 3 months, and along comes a City Championship. Do well at Hobby League and City Championships, and your rating gets you into a PC. Not doing so well? Here's a Bring Your Own Set $10K. Some big money players skip out for greener pastures, and some kitchen table guys come into the stores because the sharks are gone. If money flows into the game, then bigger tournaments come around.

I'd personally like to see more tournaments with smaller payouts, rather than a few tournaments with gaudy payouts that only "pros" (whatever that word means anymore) can afford to travel to. I don't hold any grudges against the pro players, and I hope a lot of them stick around. On the other hand, the ones that quit because of this, I won't miss at all. It doesn't affect my enjoyment in the least. Anyway, I'll see you guys in Indy, I've got 12 points burning a hole in my pocket.

I will see Stu at Pro Circuit Indy along with Rob Awesomes and whoever else is still awesome then.

The actual game changes very little for us.
People will drop the game because it was already on the decline and because this will push it over the top for them.

PCQs with no money sounded interesting but I think the reason they killed it was to introduce the City Champs as a revamp to up numbers in the places that needs it.

Here's another point. A lot of you sound so "European"! It's fun seeing some people who were not sympathetic to our plight not so long ago.
People like me and Kamiza are still around. If we can say the same for most of the players we should be alright.

Speaking of Europe, no wonder VS isn't feasible in terms of making Money. If you guys had sort out that European branch and worked together I don't see why the game wouldn't be at least surviving here. It was clearly on fire after Amsterdam.
As such it's blatantly obvious that the game could not survive as it was with just the support of North America.

I may be sounding a bit like a broken record but my perspective is obviously skwered and I'll ask this anyway.

Jeff - what does this mean for the rest of the world?

That is a damn near perfect translation. We shall see if it works. The loyal Vs. System addicts among us will work our little tails off, as we have been for three solid years, no matter what. There is no reason we can't do it. Let's start today.

Yo jeff, with no pcq's 50ks or 10ks am I ever going to draft mtu?

Heh. What he said.

I can't stress enough how important it is for you, the player, to continue and support the actions taken by UDE. If you sit back and think - "well, they've changed the OP to save money so I can continue to buy my cheap cards off ebay and bollocks to the local store" this time next year there will be very little Vs. System anywhere.

Check out the article on the front page of my website (link in sig) I worte it last week and it basically fortells all of this.