You can outwit powers a character possesses, not powers they "can use."

For example, this is why (generally) powers provided by Traits can't be outwitted.

Yep, and pay attention to wording above all else. Above is a prime example of how wording is so important in this game. Anywhere else that would've meant the same thing, but they are absolutely right, possessing a power vs using a power causes hiccups in this game quite often, if not used correctly. Thanks CeeJay for catching that so, it was clarified to the new player.

what does it take to get through a 20 Defense?! The last game I played, I was up against a Green Lantern with 20 defense, and that is a tough nut to crack. I only had two characters with perplex, and the only Prob control I had was from Two face if the roll had a 2 on the dice. Nothing I own has an attack better than 11. what can be done?

assuming it was this Green Lantern then high numbers, damage reducers and the Kingdom come ta meaning he might dodge the attack if you roll good enough to actually hit him mean yeah he's a tough nut to crack,



You were on the right lines though with perplex up your attack and get some probs on your rolls.
Somebody else with 20 defence you could perplex down their defence or use the Hydra ta to drop his defence or find a way to hurt them without attack rolls such as outwit the damage reducer and poison them but his "we will make things right trait" protects him from outwit or modifiers unless they're from a Kingdom Come character, making him trickier than just a straight 20 Def which can be troublesome by itself. Another option is the Mystics ta but of course that comes with the down side that he is only taking damage because he's hurting your figure.

Pulse wave is your best bet, preferably with a low range value. That way you can be outside the range of the area of effect when you Perplex up your attack and hope. KC GL is a pain, but he can be beat. Your best options are tk, pulse wave, and perplex. Prob if you got it. Perplex, Tk close to him, pulse wave.

20 defense, no reducers: poison and force blast (+ everything w/ Reducers below),

20 defense w/ damage reducers: Hydra/PD TA (assuming not new KC - which ignores that), RCE/CCE all to attack, special objects (3-d computer & bookshelf add +1 to attack, Flurry (2 chances), scads of PC, Perplex attack, Figures that feed off each other - Movie Hawkeye and Black Widow boost each other's attack and defense, so does CW Mockingbird, I can get Clints attack to a 14 easily.

Versus a 20, you need to get to a 13 attack to have something like a 58% chance of hitting.

Good luck.

RCE and CCE are a good call I didn't think of that.
If you can find someone with special powers who does penetrating poison or a power like Black Mamba here with Darkforce Conssstruction that should work as well.

Just as clarification, vs that KC GL penetrating poison is thwarted by the Invincible.

However, a figure like Vermin could be pretty sneaky if you can time it right:

Last time I played against him he was on a team with a couple other KC'ers. I like to play mind-control characters, so I used his KC guys against each other. KC Supes picked up a heavy and slammed KC GL, which did considerable damage against the Invincible.

Of course pulse-wave will hit him hard and get around the KC team ability evasion. Incapacitate will shut him down and prevent him from doing anything to you. Especially the Incappers who also deal damage, like Silver Banshee, who will deal damage in addition to giving a token.

And that's another thing to consider, is that it really helps to deal a large amount of damage at once. Have someone with a 5 or 6 printed damage (not many in the game like that, I know), add a heavy or ultra-heavy, then hit him. That will make him take at least 3 damage, preferably 4. Plinking him for 1 or 2 damage isn't gonna do it.

Then there are things like Agent 13, Peggy Carter, John Blake, the Utility Belt, Tony Stark (or Stark Industries ATA), and specialized characters like that, who simply shut down defenses or team abilities. Maybe the Omega Drive would help against KC characters, I don't remember for sure how it works. Some of those may not actually work against the KC's, but they're worth looking into. I know the Utility Belt is one of the better counters to many things in the game (10 range, "can't use" not "counter").

Does anyone have "formations" for their team? Strategies outside the basic powers and abilities(not that they aren't a part of it). I'm thinking big picture stuff. Controlling the map. Herding the enemy. Feints and lures. Cutting off support. Does this type of thing work? Can you sacrifice a piece for a superior position? plan some late dial surprises?

Tonight I'm using An avengers team with short to no range. I'm hoping for my indoor map to keep things close, but I'm working on a contingency for an open field. If they stay too far away, I can generate ant swarms hopefully pressuring the opponent to move in, or use Indom and leadership to close the gap and base their cannons with hulk or Giant man.

The only real formation I have is with the chanos kill box. Does that count?

I've never played at a high enough level to brag about, and I've been really inactive for about a year, but I've been around this game since the start and do really well at the level I play at.

"Formations" in the manner you are using the term are a core part of the game. The only one I'd question a bit is herding the enemy. I'm not going to say you can't do it, but I wouldn't make that a central theme of my planning. There are just too many ways for such a plan to be completely ignored.

Map control is huge. In my experience this is the biggest factor in success or failure. Abilities that generate or destroy terrain are obvious factors, but recognizing concepts like strike range (how far away you can hit your opponent, or how close they are to hitting you) are critical parts of the learning curve and are entirely based on map control.

Along this same concept are your feinting and cutting off support. I'm aware it's not common in most areas, but in my group sub 20 point pit crew figures are a common sight. Even if the more modern support figures are being used, finding a way to cut them off without sacrificing your own position can be game winning. These are the best figures to sacrifice for position as well. Done correctly (if the bait is taken), you can win the game on the spot (example: the lone attacker on the other team out ranges you and can be played safely from this turn on. You move a support figure to a location where the attacker can hit it, but is within the strike range of all of your remaining figures. You have sufficient damage output to score the KO available before the figure can move again.)

As for your short range team; if you are having fun you are doing it right. Learning how to close the distance when you are out ranged is important too. Ant swarms do not block line of fire to giants, so check your version of Hulk before using them for cover.

Fun question! I think that many effective teams have some sort of formation at their base. What gives this game legs for me is that most formations have some sort of counter. In team-building you have to weigh doubling down on your core strategy vs. adding some diversity to deal with the unexpected. Especially if you play 200-300-point keyword games you are not going to be able to do everything with one team.

Before I get into specifics, let me say that controlling the map is a big part of almost every game. Bringing a map that forces the other player to play your game is also huge.

Formations I see fairly often in games I play:

--The Lure. Sticking a figure out there who threatens the opposing force and is just important enough for the opponent to consider taking a shot at him/her, but not so important that losing him/her ends your game.

--Hit/Run/Heal/Repeat. This was very common in the early days of the game, less so now. It currently works best with X-Men TA figs or wildcards backed by X-Men, since they can heal while in base contact and have cheap TK and taxis for mobility. This guy (not in Modern) is great on such teams:


--Beatstick+Friendly Mind Control
I don't like this formation much, but it can be very effective.


--Comeback Kings. I love this formation. It has an iffy success rate, but is so much fun when it works. Basically, you stock your roster with a bunch of figs that have self-healing, regen, traited Steal Energy and the like. I recently played a high-point Monster team that included:

Force Build 8819543 0
Set	#	Name	Team	Pts	Value
FL	045	Etrigan the Demon		135	SELL
NFAOS	031A	Baron Blood		80	SELL
NFAOS	048	Iron Nail		155	SELL
Force Total:				370	$0.00

Heh.

Have fun experimenting!

@ snake eyes: that's good stuff!

I'm working on a Hit and run team now. I like Blackhawk w/ Birds of Prey ATA.

I'm trying to flesh out an Incap team with WF Creeper, and BvS001 Batman. Like you said, I can't decide weather to double down and throw in more Multi character Incap characters, or get some taxi/support/TK type stuff.

The best I've used positioning so far was on a map that was half indoor and half outdoor. I was indoors, and I ran up and closed the 4 block opening to the outside with Polar boys barrier. I had Heatwave and Songbird who also had Barrier(the power I was experimenting with) and really hosed my opponents opening attacks.

I think having Outwit, PC, TK, Hypersonic, RS, and Charge figures on the team helps. But, since it is hard to have all of the figures with certain key powers, that some indicate is best to have on one team, I think the best strategy, from what I have been noticing, especially in higher point games, is to have more figures on your team, than your opponent has, to allow you to out action the opponent. Cannot get anymore basic than that. You should be able to do this with as many low cost figures that have been made in the past few years. One of the reasons why I do not like all the low cost figures they are making, of more powerful characters. I think it is ruining the game from a strategy standpoint.