You are currently viewing HCRealms.com, The Premier HeroClix Community, as a Guest. If you would like to participate in the community, please Register to join the discussion!
If you are having problems registering to an account, feel free to Contact Us.
I could care less if the RA has extensive comic book knowledge. He isn't designing the game, only helping to interpret the rules and hopefully make them better.
Now if Game Design didn't do their homework, then I would have a big problem and would likely have quit playing years ago. Remember the debacle that was the Batgirl from Unleashed? The Cassie Cain sculpt with the lame Barbara Gordon dial? If that kind of thing happened more often, I would no longer be a HeroClix player. But fortunately Game Design gets it right most of the time these days. At least I think they do.
No offense, but with the advent of special powers tailored to the fig in question, I think knowing the source material is important; or at the very least desirable in putting out a good product.
As for getting it right most of the time, there's a "Spider-Man can't move as well as Bat-people" thread around here, I'm sure.
I think the point is WK are fools for this (and a few other things) anyway.
(facepalm)
This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. You haven't read a word I've posted, have you?
All I can do at this point is to advise you and masenko and all the rest of the ragers to go try Magic or something, since you have such a low opinion of the makers of this game.
This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. You haven't read a word I've posted, have you?
All I can do at this point is to advise you and masenko and all the rest of the ragers to go try Magic or something, since you have such a low opinion of the makers of this game.
Agreed. I've said my piece. I think I'm done here.
I hope you guys get the answers that you are looking for. Or that you can peaceably move on. Either way, I wish you well.
This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. You haven't read a word I've posted, have you?
All I can do at this point is to advise you and masenko and all the rest of the ragers to go try Magic or something, since you have such a low opinion of the makers of this game.
It's a valid criticism of WK and the way things are being done. It's certainly foolish to have conflicting stories about an unpopular rule change...get your stories straight is pretty much the first rule of PR, no?
And thanks, I play a few games.
No one is 'raging'; I haven't seen anything that would even make HCRealms Top Ten Inappropriate Posts. You're the one who seems to be on a crusade here, quite frankly. No one is forcing you here, hippie.
And that's one of the key issues. No one has a clue why they made the change, and they're not rushing to give a logical reason for it. They don't seem to want to communicate anything these days, and that silence is bound to get filled with everyone's worst suspicions.
It's a valid criticism of WK and the way things are being done. It's certainly foolish to have conflicting stories about an unpopular rule change...get your stories straight is pretty much the first rule of PR, no?
And thanks, I play a few games.
No one is 'raging'; I haven't seen anything that would even make HCRealms Top Ten Inappropriate Posts. You're the one who seems to be on a crusade here, quite frankly. No one is forcing you here, hippie.
Really? Calling people retarded? Liars? Incompetent? Calling for resignations? None of that says "rage" to you?
Sorry, bro, but that makes you someone I can't even carry on a conversation with.
And, yeah, I kinda was on a crusade. A "Just because you don't like his ruling doesn't make the RA a monster" crusade. The fact that I appear to have failed is more discouraging to me than a thousand blown rules calls.
Really? Calling people retarded? Liars? Incompetent? Calling for resignations? None of that says "rage" to you?
Sorry, bro, but that makes you someone I can't even carry on a conversation with.
And, yeah, I kinda was on a crusade. A "Just because you don't like his ruling doesn't make the RA a monster" crusade. The fact that I appear to have failed is more discouraging to me than a thousand blown rules calls.
I won't be back.
Well, then.
I know someone asked if the RA should resign. I don't think asking that question is really that big of a deal, quite frankly.
Didn't see people being called retarded. I admit I may have missed that.
As for incompetent, well, maybe they are? Or is that not even allowed to be discussed? It's not saying they're a bad people, just that maybe they aren't doing their job.
"Liar" is more of a "bad people" comment. Wish there wasn't cause for people to say that, even if it is a stretch. That's unfortunate.
Doesn't add up to rage for me. Not on a site where someone once threatened violence for people who questioned the authenticity of the illness of a man pretending to be a woman here to get clix donated to him.
I started out with reason and logic. Posts like every rorschachparadox post has just been, "Oh conspiracy theory tinfoil hat lol you're dumb"
After weeks of this, I'm sick of it. Nothing it getting done except a few of you towing the party line and shutting down reasonable complaints. So yes, now I'm ranting. And you know what? It doesn't matter. It was just said nobody reads these threads. So I can rant all I want, nothing is going to change.
Just for clarity, and because I have a few minutes to waste now, and because you singled me out (shocker), here's a re-quote of everything I've said in this thread. PsychoHippie already requoted most of yours and others vitriol.
First off, I didn't say what you say I said.
Second off, I don't see any of your posts reasonably described as "reason and logic," being as your first post in the thread started off with "ridiculous bullsheet." YMMV. Maybe this is just be being a shill or talking about your tinfoil hat. :shrug:
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Clearly, you're joking.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
You know that email goes to the Oranges, not Game Design, right?
The two previous posts were both made before post #40. The next was not made until past #200...during which time most of the vitriol PsychoHippie requoted was originally posted.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
:looks around:
Yep. Makes sense to me.
Where did I put that can of logic-B-gone that I got off of that late night infomercial? Hmmmm...
I have more of a problem with Nightwing and Gandalf being "theme" than I do with any of the "cheese" pieces you mentioned.
Probably mostly because people can actually admit they they're playing cheese in those cases...
TechGod is not involved in design, only playtesting and rules questions. A working knowledge of comics is completely irrelevant for his position. Now if he were a designer of figures, on the other hand, you'd have a ridiculously valid point.
WK approved the change. It would not have been changed otherwise. Ergo, they probably won't be replacing h over this change.
How so?
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
We're going to have to ask you to leave.
Right this way, sir.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Sooooo what?
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
I'm not "defending" anything. The poster before me made a lot of statements. He ended with "Sooooo," which to me at least, implied a conclusion. But no. It was "Soooo" nothing. "Soooo" blank. "Soooo" no conclusion provided.
I was curious about that conclusion. Hence the "Soooo what?" As in "you ended with 'Soooo,' please continue that sentence."
And as for your post, we apparently could not disagree more. A working knowledge of comics (or any assorted source material) is in no way required to understand the mechanical workings of the game and the mechanical interactions of powers.
In fact, it's been argued many times that said working knowledge inhibits understanding of the mechanics, as people look at them with blinders on. Whether you but that or not, the position had been made many times before.
So TwchGOD, or any Wizkids person whose job is strictly rules related, doesn't need to know whether Superman or the Hulk is stronger. It doesn't matter what their respective handbooks say about how many tons each can lift, and it doesn't matter whether that corresponds to being able to lift a bike, a car, a bus, a building, a mountain, or a planet. What matters is they both have the Heroclix Power "Super Strength." What matters is that he is familiar with that, and it's interactions with other powers. What matters is that when Superman has a special form of Super Strength called "Strength From the Yellow Sun," and Hulk has a special of of Super Strength called "He's Never Been This Angry," he knows how they work, and how they interact with other powers, and what design intends those powers to do...not what Marvel and DC think those powers should be.
Heck, far as TechGOD is concerned, it doesn't particularly matter whether Superman and the Hulk are stronger than Hooded Justice and Bullseye...again, just what "Strongman" and "Any Object a Weapon" mean to the game.
If TechGOD was in a design position, then this would be completely different...but I said that already.
Please point out the dishonesty.
And for what it's worth, "the matter at hand is not a big deal" is hysterical when four-fifths of this thread was written before the ClixCast was even posted.
I like the Cosmic Cube. I've used it many times. Sure, it's not "meta." Sure, it's not "resource-good," or "auto-win," or anything. But it's fun, and worth it's 12 points.
And for an answer, because it seems that the Cosmic Cube works the way it should. It seems that Nightwing/Gandalf did not.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Hang on to 'em. Give it a week before fanboys are rioting about something else.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Humor me. I have yet to see a lie although I saw plenty things that weren't lies. Maybe I just missed them.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Thanks for the summary. It's what I assumed people were referring to.
I can understand frustration with the change. I can understand frustration with the way in which it was announced. And finally, I can understand frustration with the two stories being told.
But I cannot deem this a lie, or dishonesty. By both accounts, proper channels were followed, and GD weighed in. By both accounts, the RA was doing his job, even if people didn't like the outcome.
In no way would a greater working knowledge of the source material prevented him from suggesting this change...heck, if we're looking at it honestly, a greater working knowledge of the source material might've resulting in this getting changed sooner...
The two stories are not contradictory, even if they differ in perspective.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Because if GD doesn't care that theme is broken, and ok'd the change, they they intend him to be played that way.
And who knows, maybe GD actually overlooked* the theme ramifications of the powers, and there "I don't care," was as much of an "oh yeah." Fact is, we don't know. And since we don't know, "lie" or "dishonest" cannot be properly and fairly applied here.
* Am I the only one who sees the irony in a bunch of the people shouting about an orange conspiracy to undermine GD being the same people shouting about the incompetence of GD in other threads? Just me?
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Of course it's just noise. That's all anybody in this thread is doing. I'm just jawing with people here, true.
I still disagree with your statement though. Even with SP's the RA's job doesn't need to take source material into account. That's designs job. The RAs job is to work with what design gives him.
Sorry, I missed the part where "Nightwing, one of the most respected heroes in the DC universe who has in fact led many of their teams" had a similar effect in the Marvel universe, or in third party universes.
Maybe that was in the comics the RA didn't read. But I didn't read them either.
"Come on," indeed...
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
EDIT: Hrmm, for some reason, this response didn't take. Here is:
Glad it's not just me! I was starting to worry...
On a phone, breaking up quotes is often more effort than I feel necessary. I apologize for not breaking down my response.
That doesn't change my point though. My posts are just noise. So are everybody else's. They are discussion on a discussion board. This thread isn't going to result in the figures being changed back, so yeah, they're just noise. I wouldn't exempt the remainder of my posts from that label even though you might have been specifically referring to a specific point.
I can't explain myself any clearer. Disagree all you like, but you won't sway me by dismissing my argument. It's a logical argument.
The movie where he's off on his own business? The movie where because he's not part of the body count of the Company they need to add a member (Bilbo) to avoid the unlucky number?
Look, I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's silly that these figures cannot theme "properly" where they belong. But it's much sillier that they can theme "improperly" where they don't belong... And since any comic-not-keyword-accurate player will tell you, playing a "proper" lineup often forgoes theme benefits, this is not a new circumstance. It being old hat, however, doesn't not make it any less regrettable. I'm sorry for those who want to play Gandalf with the Company. I am not sorry for those who want to play Gandalf as a Red Lantern.
Sure. They could've. But they didn't.
Find the part where I said it was the most egregious example, and I'll apologize for it, and stand corrected. Or, start a thread about any of those things and I'll take roughly the same position I'm taking now: that's regrettable, but it's what we have to work with. In none of them will I say it's the most egregious, and in none of them will I say that they need to be fixed, and in none of them will I say that it should be left alone solely because the other was as well. It's just not a valid argument.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
It is fair to be upset. I agree, and I've said so many times.
What I don't think is fair is to call him a liar. That's all.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Sorry. It does sound cool...
I do get this. But I still don't see dishonesty.
Oh, absolutely. He can't be surprised. I'm not surprised. RAs have garnered ganger before, and I'd bet money that they do it again. It's part of the territory.
Actually, that's not clear at all. I haven't said that, you're assuming that based on the position I'm taking towards the aftermath.
I liked Gandalf/Nightwing pre-errata. I liked Noh-Varr and Madrox too. My opinion towards those figures did not change because their playability didn't change. They just don't allow for theme bonuses, is all. Which is still fine with me. Because I can still play Gandalf as a Red Lantern. Nothing is changed. I just don't get the theme bonus for my team being "accurate." And I'm ok with that because, ya know, it makes sense.
I don't disagree, necessarily. But again, GD has to approve a change. Blame for this should be falling squarely on their shoulders, not just Sean's. they knew what he was doing and were okay with it. This wasn't some under-handed behind-their-back ploy. They approved it, and went with the change. That it was Sean's idea of Fat Fred's idea isn't really all that important in the long run. Because next time Sean, or Fat Fred, wants to make a change, they still have to go through GD...and they still have to opportunity to say yes or no.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
This is what I'm trying to say. I can see reasons to dislike the change. (Par for the course with Wizkids.) I can see reasons to dislike the communication. (Again, par for the course.) But I can't see reason to attack the guy, or accuse him of anything, regardless of personal feelings on the ruling.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
I'd been meaning to re-listen to the ClixCast in light of the accusations stemming from it, but hadn't had a chance to since this thread (re-)kicked off.
Thanks, theavengerthor, for taking that time to break that down, since those are the facts in question.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
I'd bet a couple dollars that nobody has "be a punching back on the Internet" as part of their job description.
Is it inevitable? To a degree. But does that make it ok?
Do I even need to answer that?
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Funny. It is streamlined then, by your own definition.
I mean really. Check your facts. That's the exact point theavengerthor was making...
Oh the irony...
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Send me a quite and your address and I'll send you a fiver. I can easily be wrong.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Were I ever to become affiliated with Wizkids, my anonymity would be built into the NDA. It protects them, it protects me. My name and screen name doesn't get connected to them. No orange or purple background.
I don't have the mindset to just take pointless flak most of the time. Some people can do it. I could too. But if I could put myself in a position to not have to, I damn sure would!
D'oh. That was before my time. You may have won this round, Grinner...
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Well said, both of you!
This is my primary issue with this thread (and plenty others). The degree to which it's risen is unreasonable, IMO. Any "principled stand" issue is lost in the noise. The level of bitterness and anger makes this thread unreadable as far as looking for suggestions/solutions. If people were more willing to approach this with a level head, they could practically guarantee a better response from their peers, and possibly higher ups.
Unsurprisingly, I agree with both of you on your other points as well. This was just the big one to me.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Resources to relics is apples to oranges, so no Utility Belt comparison from me.
For the Eye versus the Cube, I think they're roughly equivalent. It's a good example. The Cube is easier to pick up. The Eye is harder to pick up, ergo you get a little more bang for your buck.
I've said many times that the Bat Signal seems to be deliberately undercosted as a counter to the "must play resources" mindset. IMO, neither resource is an auto-add now. There's counters in the form of some figures. There's a very competitive (both in game play and point cost) option instead in the form of the Bat Signal.
Will every team at Worlds have a Infinity Gauntlet, Utility Belt, or Bat Signal? Yes, most likely. Nobody would play the Cosmic Cube, or even the Eye of Agamotto. But three tricks is more variety than one trick, and just one trick brought a huge variety to last years worlds. Color me curious this year.
Sorry, that was a tangent not only from this thread, but from the tangent I was addressing...
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
That's exactly what I said. The two stories differ in perspective, not fact.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
It does keep something of actual potential interest from popping up.
/devils advocate
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Sorry I don't live up to your expectations. :shrug: I didn't think it was worth a lot of investigative effort. I should've know better in a thread like this one.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Pardon me. Last time I attempt to inject some brevity.
Jeez. Make light of a complaint that runs common is every other GD thread and still ends in a fight. I'ma just back outta here while I still can...
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
When you summarize an opposing argument as negatively as possible, it's guaranteed to make yours look better in comparison.
It's also guaranteed to show me that there no reason to stay subscribed to this thread.
Quote : Originally Posted by rorschachparadox
Dammit, I did mean levity!
Quote : Originally Posted by DemonRS
Justify to me why this thread is necessary and I'll keep it open..
Quote : Originally Posted by Girathon
It pissed me off all weekend rorschachparadox wasn't dead.
Of course people are entitled to have an opinion that questions this ruling and other things that WKs does. That is not cause to ask them to leave the game for another. You can support this game perfectly fine, and yet still disagree with rulings and decisions by the rules crew and/or the company. People need to stop belittling others for having an opinion contrary to their own.
However, calling for people to resign or be fired over it, is out right preposterous.
Quote : Originally Posted by mbauers
Ok, so this game's finally over?
Who the eff daykilled me back to back days? Seriously.
I haven't said a single thing on this site ever that I wouldn't say in person to their face. Quite honestly, I'd be a lot more direct if it was in person, because passion on a subject apparently turns into vitriol for people who don't agree with you.
Also, ror, there are other threads about this, and quite honestly I doubt talking to you about any of this would solve anything.
Quote : Originally Posted by Typhon
what members contribute through donations is actually costing us money
edit: obviously I'm tired of this debate. We have two sides that aren't going to agree, and nothing good is going to come out of it at this point. Probably this should just be locked.
Quote : Originally Posted by Typhon
what members contribute through donations is actually costing us money