Many thanks, friend! I'm glad this feels great! I was hoping that his abilities would mirror the yes/no judgment of Ammit's scales.

You raise a great point, and one I meant to mention: although Harrow didn't get a costume -which I agree was good- we oddly didn't get any closure between him and Khonshu. We don't know how he got together with Khonshu, what they did togehter, what led to them falling out, and how he successfully rejected Khonshu. That he was apparently shot and killed in the ending seems to close the door on exploring that, save in flashbacks.

Haha looking forward to talking STRANGE 2 as well! Based on its weekend-to-weekend box office drop (currently in the upper 60s), and the reaction of fans online, it seems to be a deeply polarizing movie and seemingly subversive to expectations of the MCU. It's going to be fun to see where everyone falls on it.

To that end, speaking to everybody...

DOCTOR STRANGE 2 DIALS ARE COMING ON TUESDAY

I'll be digging right into it, so if you want to avoid spoilers, maybe come back to the thread after you've seen the film C:

#109 Khonshu
Team: Mystics
Range: 0
Points: 200
Keywords: Moon Knight Family, Deity, Mystical, Past Animal

9 12 19 4

9 12 19 4

9 12 18 4

9 11 18 4

8 11 18 4

8 11 18 4

8 11 18 4

7 11 18 4

7 12 20 4

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Selected Avatar: FREE: At the beginning of the game, choose a friendly character to be Ammit's avatar. For the rest of the game, that character has +1 combat stats, but when they take damage, deal Ammit 1 unavoidable damage.
God of Vengeance: Place a Vengeance Token on every opposing character who damaged a friendly character since your last turn. When Khonshu attacks them, raise his damage by +1. At the end of your turn, remove all of Khonshu's Vengeance tokens.

My biggest problem is that the mythological Ammut looks way cooler. They have the head of a crocodile, the mane and torso of a lion, and the hindquarters of a hippo.

So freakin’ cool…



#108 Ammit
Team: Mystics
Range: 0
Points: 200
Keywords: Deity, Mystical, Past, Animal

9 12 19 4

9 12 19 4

9 12 18 4

9 11 18 4

8 11 18 4

8 11 18 4

8 11 18 4

7 11 18 4

7 12 20 4

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Selected Avatar: FREE: At the beginning of the game, choose a friendly character to be Ammit's avatar. For the rest of the game, that character has +1 combat stats, but when they take damage, deal Ammit 1 unavoidable damage.
Consume Souls: Pulse Wave 7 (still half range), and in addition to normal affects, heal Ammit 1 Click for every 2 characters hit with this attack.

LAST WARNING: I'll start posting DOCTOR STRANGE: INTO THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS dials and discussions tomorrow.

Excited to see what you do with the MoM dials… your take on Moon-Knight was interesting!

Many thanks, friend! I just hope the STRANGE 2 dials live up to the hype!

I feel like there was such a broad range of abilities displayed in the film that there could be several great interpretations. The ones in this month's dial contest are staggeringly good!

Wow, new favorite MCU film? DOCTOR STANGE: INTO THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS (DOCTOR STRANGE 2 for the rest of this) made me reeeeeeally happy.

Smart, sharp script? Check. Excellent, playful direction by Sam Raimi? Check. Subversive, wacky-ass horror s*** by Sam Raimi? Check. Strong Danny Elfman score? Check. More Easter Eggs than you can shake a stick at? Check. This was a barrage of stuff I liked.

It's such a little thing, but did you notice that nearly every time Doctor Strange uses a spell in this, even though it isn’t called out, it’s one of his classic spells from the comics? He throws green flame -Flames of the Faltine. He unleashes serpents -the Vipers of Valtorr. He summons a demon head -the Demons of Denak.

So cool.

As eluded, the film was subversive as hell, which has apparently polarized the audience. Gonna be an interesting discussion, this.



#111 Doctor Strange
Real Name: Dr. Stephen Strange
Team: Avengers,Mystics
Range: 7
Points: 75
Keywords: Kamar-Tag, Avengers, Mystical, Celebrity

7 11 18 3

10 11 18 3

10 11 18 3

7 10 18 2

7 10 17 2

7 10 17 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

Cloak of Levitation: FREE: Generate a Cloak of Levitation Bystander [MAX:1] adjacent to Doctor Strange. // FREE: place the Cloak of Levitation on Doctor Strange's card. If the Cloak of Levitation is in play, Doctor Strange instead has
Master of the Mystic Arts: During your turn, you may choose a standard ability to have until the beginning of your next turn. You may not choose that ability again this game.
Protecting America Chavez: Energy Shield/Deflection, Super Senses, and Defend.

#111b Cloak of Levitation
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0

7 9 16 1

UPDATED: 05/17/22 - Thanks, Hawk1113!

Love that Dr. Strange, although I think he's missing base .

So let's get into it without writing a whole novel...

I liked a lot of this film. As someone who was in the minority of really enjoying the first Dr. Strange, I am generally a fan of Benedict's work as the character. And it should be well-known that Wanda is my favorite Avenger both in the MCU and in the Comics. Sure enough, everything that works for me here works in heavy part due to Elizabeth Olsen and Benedict Cumberbatch knocking it out of the park.

I imagine this is audience-alienating because it is a dark movie with some truly gruesome deaths and horror-movie jump scares. Wherever I land on this film (and I am leaning warm), it isn't going to be a flick like Civil War or GotG 1 that I rewatch over and over; it's just too brutal for a fun popcorn night.

But to stay limited to just our man of the hour today, I think for me part of the problem is that the dramatic through-line of the film falls a bit flat for me. It feels like this movie actually wants to tackle some weightier subjects:

1. There's a question of Stephen's "control-freak" tendencies, his need to "be the guy holding the knife". It almost seems from that wedding scene that maybe there will be an interrogation of Stephen's "grand moral calculus" (a phrase that has sneakily been his catch phrase across Endgame, No Way Home, What If?, and this); it felt like the movie was going somewhere when his colleague asked if there was "really no other way" and it reminded me that Stephen decided, forced or not, that 5 years of unimaginable suffering and the deaths of Tony Stark and Natasha Romanoff was a small price to pay for salvation. That's great, meaty stuff! And then...this doesn't really go anywhere after the wedding? We do get a lovely pay-off at the end, with Stephen trusting America to win the day instead of feeling like he has to go even darker to do it himself, but there's no middle to that sandwich. That the explanation for his need for control stems from a dead little sister feels a bit cliched for good measure (caveat - no idea if that's true in comics).

2.There's also the recurring question - "Are you happy, Stephen?". The film seems to feint towards continuing WandaVision's exploration of grief and Dr. Strange's exploration of acceptance of pain and loss, and that's the fundamental thing driving the conflict. Wanda saw a multiverse where every version of herself except her got a happy ending and went mad; other alternate Stephens especially "Sinister Strange" saw a universe where he always loses the girl and decided to spare his alternate-selves the pain (so dark). Our Stephen is clearly heartbroken, but able to make mature decisions ending with parting ways with 833Christine and treating Wong with proper respect. But again, I don't feel like the film does the work to hit that conclusion; it introduces the ideas and then is moving to fast to explore them. The movie, by the writer's own admission, rely relies on that What If? episode to show us just how vital Christine was to Strange.

3. Finally, related, there's a question of "doing bad for the right reasons". Again, that's a deep question - who decides "what the right reasons" are? Who decides how much evil is too much evil? The opening has Defender!Strange willing to kill America to save the multiverse; is that justified? Clearly Wong lands at the same place, encouraging Stephen to kill America at the end to stop Wanda from taking her power. In another universe, Stephen's lone-wolf tendencies broke the universe - but, it also helped them defeat Thanos without a "blip" and with the only loss being Strange himself. Was that "worse" than what Prime Stephen did to defeat Thanos? Clearly the film lands on Wanda, acting purely out of her own desires, as "too far", but it doesn't do much more than a surface level examination of Stephen or Wong.

Just like with "The Winter Soldier", sometimes a film that takes a big swing at something fascinating and whiffs rubs me the wrong way more than a film that doesn't even try to be more than a good time, ya know? Hence my struggle. And this was a novel anyways - thanks for providing the space to ramble!

Novel or not, I think you really nailed a lot of my thoughts on the movie too.

Since I was a kid, me and my dad have had a tradition of going to see MCU movies together. It's just always been our thing since seeing Age of Ultron at a local drive-in (I promise there's a point to this). After every movie, before we say anything else, we ask ourselves one question, "Was I entertained by that movie?" And for me, the answer is definitely yes. I really enjoyed Multiverse of Madness. I'm a big fan of this phase of Marvel seemingly moving away a bit from the traditional MCU formula. But WOW was its advertising poor. Showing off scenes from the very end of the movie in the first trailer? Completely misrepresenting the tone of the movie? Now, if you know Sam Raimi movies, it shouldn't be a surprise that it's a light horror movie, but if you only know the MCU or his Spider-Man movies? Or if you relied on the advertising and merchandising? You'd likely go in expecting the MCU's usual action adventure with a magic flair and an introduction to the multiverse. I'm happy about that though, it was nice to get a break from the usual MCU shenaniganary for a movie, but I think a lot more people would have appreciated it as well had it been more clear what the tone of this movie was going to be like.

TLDR: I really enjoyed MoM, but I think it was held back by poor advertising and a desire to try new things but couldn't push the envelope as much as its director wanted. I really hope Strange 3 carries the same tone and themes as MoM but gets more of an opportunity to explore those deeper.

Overall, I liked this movie, although I do have a few things I didn’t like. But none of those are really about Dr. Strange prime.
(Although the fact that we’re calling him ”prime” actually does relate to one of my peeves)

Discussing the character:

I enjoyed this take on Dr. Strange about as much as have in previous entries, which is quite a bit.

I liked that he had a bunch of different spells with interesting visuals (I loved the music fight), and I like how the movie examined his character.
I’m typically not as good at noticing narrative shortcomings as a lot of you guys, but I thought it was handled well.

I liked that the movie kept bringing up the idea of Strange going too far and getting corrupted across the multiverse, only for our Strange to end up in a situation, where he also had to cross that line. But he managed to stay (relatively?) on the side of the light, in spite of that. And in the end, he gave up control to someone else.
Also, I thought Defender Strange’s corpse was a great Chekov’s gun. As Strange prime was gearing up to use the Darkhold, I was thinking “But who’s he going to possess… oh!”

Discussing the dial:

Looks fun and fitting.

I like that you added Running Shot early on the dial, and then Charge later. In most games, you would probably burn through all the range attack powers first, so Charge would arrive just in time to dig into the close attack powers.

Count me among the ones who LOVE this movie. My wife and I got to see it Saturday night (thank goodness for babysitters!), and it just ticked pretty much every box for me. Sure, it may not have explored its themes as thoroughly as it could have, and it definitely assumed you watched WandaVision and several episodes of What If, but you know what? I did, so I can’t hold that against the movie.

I really loved how this movie more than most MCU movies felt very distinctly identifiable by its director. Like, even if you didn’t know that Raimi directed it going in, the trained eye could clearly see once things got going that this was his movie. He clearly got to do things his way and didn’t have to compromise much if anything at all to fit within the MCU. He’s both that good and that inherently compatible.

It was risky, but it also catered heavily to fan service. It owed a lot stylistically to Sam’s Spider-Man films, but also to Evil Dead. And how cool is it that Sam now has both Stan/Steve collaborations under his belt?

There’s so much I love in this movie, but I’ll save specific discussions for when you get to them.

I think you nailed what else I've noticed split audiences here - this is the first MCU Film Release that demands you have a D+ subscription, and in unpredictable sort of ways.

- WandaVision is more or less required viewing for any of Wanda's arc in this film to make sense. You will literally be lost, entirely, if you didn't catch WandaVision.
- What If? isn't required viewing, but for sure the "What If Dr. Strange Lost His Heart?" episode helps flesh out/review Christine and Stephen's relationship and would fill in a lot of the gaps the script barely has time for.
- New to D+ is Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., which also isn't required viewing but for the faithful that got through at least S.4 of it - they'll have a great headstart on how destructive and corrupting the Darkhold is which helps explain how Wanda went so dark, so fast.

Meanwhile one might think that "No Way Home" would be essential, as the prior MCU movie and one that featured Dr. Strange...but it barely matters beyond establishing Wong as the official Sorcerer Supreme and a quick joke about how no one knows what Spider-man looks like or how his powers work now. And Loki (with its timelines and multiverses) and Moon Knight (with its mystical gods and monsters) don't factor into the story at all. Nor do Shang-chi (despite Wong's appearance in that film) or The Eternals. The MCU's content has doubled and now it's sort of a crapshoot on which things you "must see" to make sense of their next films.

This didn't bother me; I've missed a few bonus features like "All the Kings Men" and I didn't watch Inhumans, but I've seen all of the MCU's offerings. But I definitely noticed critics frustration at having to "do the homework" of at least watching WandaVision and also their growing frustration that not all the movies "feed into" one another.

The MCU really is starting to feel similar to the comics, when it comes to interconnectivity, references, and plot threads. Maybe they should start including little yellow boxes in the corner, to tell you what you need to watch.

Ooh! Thank you for catching my typo! I've updated the dial and I'm sending you rep!

Always happy for the novels, friend! The film discussion is one of the things that makes this thread a true joy for me. Honestly, I bet you're not in the minority about the first film: it seems to be mostly well-enjoyed, and its ending was nothing short of iconic. I personally don't find the first film satisfying and I feel like I'm in the minority

I can definitely respect being put off by the film's horror. It's certainly the furthest the MCU has ever pushed in that direction, and I know it's not for everybody. I'd like to think that Raimi's playfulness would help bridge the divide for those who aren't normally horror fans ...but that might just be me, who's a bit desensitized to it.

1. You beat me to one of my points! The "always needing to be the man holding the scalpel" to Strange giving way to others is a through line that plays out over the film. We see versions of Strange being very cut-and-sacrifice heavy, both figuratively and literally, constantly feeling like they have to be the one to shoulder everything. OUR Strange, however, is always watching and giving nonverbal reactions to these events, especially the recriminations of his utilitarian choices. I think the arc and deliberation over hard decisions, responsibility, etc. is there, but it's not directly discussed in dialogue. It's also borne out in Scarlet Witch's parallel arc where she spends the movie being the manifestation of failing to heed this lesson.

2a. I can respect feeling that way, but I think the film does address whether or not Strange is happy, and the answer is the tough non-answer we all face: are we happy? Or do we have to content ourselves not what could be, but what is?

2b. I dunno, I think the subtext of the wedding, the reception, Strange's memory in alter-NYC, his relationship to nu-Christine, Evil Strange's longing for Christine, and Our Strange's relationship to the watch powerfully tells me he hasn't gotten over her and that she's super important to him.

3. Definitely agree with these rhetorical questions! There's a good debate to be had over whether or not the MCU is, on average, as good to its female characters as its male characters. I'd argue that no, it is not. One could also debate that Strange's choice to faux-sacrifice half the universe to stop Thanos is a better utilitarian choice to make than sacrificing the multiverse to have the ideal family situation... but the film is also arguing Strange's INFINITY WAR decision wasn't his to make --which is why he gives the win to America Chavez.

It's totally fine to have the struggle and to come down on the film the way you do! It's clear that this film was hella polarizing and absolutely not what audiences were expecting.

You raise a fantastic point, friend: Marvel Studios has been known for duplicitous advertising for years now. They commonly edit characters into and out of scenes for trailers. Hulk is shown in the Wakandan charge in the INFINITY WAR trailer, neither Garfield or Maguire are shown in the NO WAY HOME trailer's charge against the villains, for example. Haha because of the trailers, I was truthfully dreading STRANGE 2 because I thought it would be nonstop, frothy multiverse plugs instead of being first and foremost a Dr. Strange movie.

Marvel Studios proooooobably needs to start trusting audiences and advertising a little more honestly, especially considering that Dr. Strange got a B Cinemascore (which measures how satisfied audiences were with the product they were expecting) and a 67% weekend-to-weekend drop.Pssh, talking about what you liked or disliked about the movie is still great movie talk, friend! And omigosh, that music fight was so freakin' good...

And many thanks about the dial! I figured that the first half of the dial would be Dr. Strange doing his classic magic routine, but the tail end would stand in for his martial arts fight with Mordo. Still amusing that's how the first movie reimagined Kamar-Taj...
Haha right there with you, friend. There are SO many fun Raimi Easter Eggs in this, especially EVIL DEAD 2 and ARMY OF DARKNESS. God, what a fun time. Very cool that his fingerprint was so clear on this, much like Zhao's on ETERNALS and Watiti's on THOR: RAGNAROK.
These are very good points (and a truly epic Photoshopping!) about the increasingly complex nature of the MCU, and something that slowly seems to be repelling mainstream audiences.

I started noticing it in reactions to ETERNALS, where influencers and critics seemed to resent the homework the Disney+ shows and new movies represented (to them), how out-there and different the film had been from what they'd expected, and how starting a new arc after the Infinity Saga felt somehow tacky and unwanted.

I DO think that Marvel Studios has reached a point of peak omnipresence where it dominates the pop culture conversation. I'd be lying if I didn't say that some of the movies and shows haven't periodically felt obligatory to me (the newly released She-Hulk trailer does not look like my jam, and I dislike that they introduced her ass-first).

That said, I do feel like the strength of the MCU is that one isn't necessarily required to watch everything... but if you have, everything feels richer for it.

You don't have to have seen Wandavision, What If, Agents of Shield, Inhumans, No Way home, X-Men, Captain Marvel, or Fantastic Four to understand the events of the film, but things might be colored differently if you have.

If you've seen Wandavision, you know that Wanda's existence has been defined by suffering, personal loss, lethal mistakes, trauma, and mounting selfish decisions that have hurt other people. That is to say, you might see how she's had an incredibly slow burn toward villainy that became apparent in Wandavision and culminated here. If you hadn't seen the show, you'd think she was just a psycho grieving mother ready to destroy countless universes just to get her kids back.

All that said, I do also wonder at what point the MCU becomes inaccessible for general audiences. Superhero films have always had steep weekend-to-weekend box office drop-offs, but 67%? That's steep. That says most of everybody who wanted to see the film did immediately and that word of mouth wasn't as strong as it normally is. Again, that's understandable when the film was this subversive, scarier than MCU audiences are accustomed to, steeped in deep-movie-and-show-lore, and not the NO WAY HOME follow-up folks were expecting and maybe even hoping for.

Oh, I plan to, once we get to the relevant dials.

In my experience, what you describe here is exactly what it’s like to read Marvel comics. In most cases, you can’t realistically read everything that has come before, but the more you read, the more meaningful each story can become (sometimes).

I was mostly joking about the yellow boxes, of course, but the comics do have one very helpful component, that movies typically lack: The summary page.

This page contains a short text summary of whatever the writer feels is relevant. For weekly stories, it typically just summarises the last few issues, but for crossover events, any other relevant story beats from other comics can also be mentioned. It does a decent job of setting the scene.

But I don’t think general audiences would enjoy a Star Wars-style text crawl at the beginning of every MCU movie, either. Helpful though it may be.

Solid point about the summary pages! You know, if the MCU intends for connectivity to genuinely matter, they might need to implement something like that, yeah. We learned from ETERNALS that the opening text crawl was divisive, as it repelled some audiences quickly.

Maybe a TV-style “previously on” montage? Two-three minutes catching audiences up on what they need to know to understand the film. Only the most plot-vital moments from previous films and TV shows. That’d be a tactic admission that this whole venture has become akin to trumped up television.

The only lingering annoyance I could see existing is what if you didn’t want to have to keep up with the various story parts by watching all the Disney+ shows or the movies that didn’t appeal to you? What if you didn’t want to watch anything but the movie in question?

I don’t think the current model of MCU releasing has an answer for that.