The guy on the roof didn't fight like Jason Todd. He didn't know Batman's real name. He wasn't Jason Todd. He was Clayface.

Later on, "Jason Todd" said that he fought Batman on the roof. "Jason Todd" lied because that is what "Jason Todd" does. You'll notice that everything "Jason Todd" does is not what Jason Todd would do in the same situation.

The logical assumption is that "Jason Todd" is a different character from Jason Todd who is a different character from Clayface.

EDIT: Besides, "Jason Todd" couldn't have fought Batman on that roof. That would have meant he was working with Hush and thus the Joker. Doesn't "Jason Todd" hate the Joker more than anything?

In an Outsiders story, Red Hood faught Nightwing to a complete draw, ending with Red Hood with a gun under Nightwing's chin, and Nightwing haveing a baton on Hood's throat. They called it a draw because Red Hood actually had info for NIghtwing, but added "A draw? Last time I checked, my bullet would rip through your brain before you could crush my larnyx." or something along those lines. So yes, even though I am a huge Nightwing fan, Red Hood got game, whoever he is.

And I'm pretty sure Hush was fighting Joker, not working with him.

You're thinking of Hush2.

Joker was part of Hush's huuuuuge teamup during Hush1 along with Poison Ivy, Two-Face, Scarecrow, Killer Croc, Harley, and most importantly Clayface.

You should read this, the Return from the Grave part especially:

http://en.dcdatabaseproject.com/Red_Hood_(Jason_Todd)

It's a wiki, but it is assemmbled by dedicated fans (not I sir). It afirms what I had said earlier.

Also, unless you can actually see panels moving, I doubt anyone can tell what "fighting style" the "Jason Todd" fighting Batman on the roof was using. The shock of Jason's return threw Batman off a little. Noticing the similarity of the fighting style was put in place to confuse the Batman. No one is perfect, even Batman can fall into traps and confusion.

~Phil

I've read the actual comic, good sir.

I can't tell the style, but Batman can. He said the person he was fighting was using Nightwing's style. Batman asked him why the person he was fighting was calling him Batman instead of his real name. The person did not answer.

If the person he was fighting was either Jason Todd or "Jason Todd" he would have fought like Jason Todd and called Batman Bruce. Also, "Jason Todd" would refuse to work with the Joker. Therefore, Batman was fighting Clayface and "Jason Todd" later told a lie because "Jason Todd" is a liar.

Your being silly. I am having trouble following our conversation now, even re-reading the posts. The Jason Todd/"Jason Todd" business is part of the problem.

Also, if you wouldn't mind please clearly re-state what you believed happen on that night at the roof top. Add any info that would follow

Thanks

~Phil

Agreed. Things would be much more clear if "Jason Todd" aka the Red Hood didn't exist.

Clayface fought Batman on the roof. Later, the Red Hood lied to Batman about it. That makes sense. If you use that explanation there is no conflict between Hush 1 and Under the Hood 2.

If you believe what the Red Hood told Batman in Under the Hood 2, and then go back and read Hush 1 it won't make sense.

If the Red Hood fought Batman on the roof, he would have known Batman's real name and used his own fighting style. Using Nightwing's fighting style (which he wouldn't have known in the first place) and never calling Batman "Bruce" did not throw off Batman. Obviously, Batman would pick up on it and not believe he was fighting the real Jason. Thus, it would mean that the effect of fighting Jason was lessened which would be something the Red Hood would not have wanted.

Why would the Red Hood team up with the Joker and then go out of his way to fight differently so that he'd be messing with Batman but not messing with Batman as badly as if he had just fought him naturally?

He wouldn't.

Simple solution that doesn't conflict with the original story: The Red Hood lied.

Okay. Thank you.

I understand your point clearly now, and believe it to have justification.

I don't agree though. Comics aren't perfect, even if something doesn't fit the puzzel. They need to have a picture so they squeeze in the pieces to fit as best they can. You know that already, I am sure.

I don't like discontinuity and conform to the truth that is given by the most updated authority. I feel like that makes reading future stories more enjoyable. (And it might be why I feel so alright about Heroclix, I accept errata with open arms).

^_^

~Phil

You both forget that the plan for the story changed halfway though. Hush was the original masterm,ind, but it was changed to Riddler. What this has to do with anything, I forget, as it is three in the morning here, and all I've had to eat today is cinnimon toast crunch and a bag of goldfish crackers.

Thanks for the reminder, BB.

I agree. While Jason Todd is a cool character now, remember that it was the DC Comics Readers that phoned in and voted for him not to come back. Personally, he's the DC equivalent of Bucky.

And thus DC's equivalent to the Winter Soldier.

Not calling Batman Bruce doesn't prove anything, except that he didn't call Batman Bruce. He may have still known who Batman was, but not wanted to reveal yet who he was. In "Under the Hood," Jason fought Batman for weeks before revealing himself, so there's no reason to assume he'd blurt out a clue to his real identity during their first fight. Likewise, using Nightwing's fighting style proves nothing more than that Jason had studied enough martial arts to be able to fight in a couple of different styles. He had certainly known Dick Grayson before dying, so would have already been fairly familiar with his fighting styles.

During the fight scene in question, he didn't wear his hood style mask. He was supposed to be Jason Todd. He wasn't hiding his identity. Batman called Clayface's bluff and there was nothing Clayface could do since he didn't know Batman's real name.
He didn't ever train with him like Tim did. He certainly wasn't familiar enough with Nightwing's current (ie: long after he was dead) fighting style to mimic it not to mention there was no reason to mimic it in the first place.

Clayface was trying to appear to be Jason Todd back from the dead. Not knowing Jason Todd's fighting style (but knowing Nightwing's because he has fought Nightwing) or Batman's real name, he was unable to fool Batman.

The Red Hood told Batman a lie to get under his skin.

Not answering still doesn't mean anything, though. If Jason's plan was to throw Batman off his game by sowing doubt, leavng him to wonder by not showing who he was for sure would be one way to do it.

But Jason had been alive for years, just in hiding and training. And Nightwing would be covered by the media. Film at 11 would give Jason some idea how to mimic his moves. He'd certainly have a better chance of it than Clayface would. Clayface has some nifty powers, but I've never heard of him studying martial arts before.

Jason had any number of better ways to get under Batman's skin by that point. I don't see how saying "That wasn't Clayface, it was me!" accomplishes anything, if it was really Clayface. Honestly, it just smells like retcon to me.