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I won't argue about it (though I strongly disagree), but I can't access the thread (is in in the Judges forum?).
Could someone post a transcript, please?
Yeah, the post is in the Judges forum. The transcript is pretty much what scholarx has already posted - it's nbperp's answer to the old "can I use Phasing with the multi-attack?" question.
I'll start a thread on the Judges forum and ask about this issue specifically - seems I am not the only one with a diverging opinion, after all.
TK option 2 is an attack so that argument makes no sense to what people are discussing here.
I do not know what other people are talking about... I am discussing moving a friendly figure or an object to a new square, neither of which involves an attack roll.
"MULTIATTACK (optional): Give this character a power action. It can use two free actions against up to two targets per action. These free actions may be power actions, close combat actions, and ranged combat actions, though free actions gained from this power can’t be used to activate this power. Make an attack roll for each attack, if any. Any damage dealt by one of these attacks is reduced by 1, minimum 1 damage. This character may not use feats when using this power. This power can’t be countered or lost."
The underlined part kinda implies that the Multiattack can be used with powers that don't necessitate an attack roll...
I respectfully disagree with what you believe that line implies. For instance - do you have to make an attack roll when you target an object, square of blocking terrain, or wall? Can you target those things during a Multi-attack? It would seem that underlined part more likely implies attacks that don't require rolls.
...Truthfully, I think you missed the part that should really be emphasized in that line of text:
Quote
Make an attack roll for each attack, if any.
Also:
Quote
Any damage dealt by one of these attacks is reduced by 1, minimum 1 damage.
Don't these lines seem to infer to everyone that it's attacks you should be making?
The best I can really do here is go back to that Judge thread and request that nb consider an update to the FAQ/E&C (and perhaps the next rulebook) specifically stating that non-attack actions can't be used for multi-attack (which is obviously how he and GD understand the 'trait' to work in the first place).
Personally, I don't know why P/T, Regen. and Support were cherry-picked and specifically mentioned as the powers that shouldn't be used with it (after all, no colossal has Support, only Dark Phoenix has Regen., and only Spectre and now AM have Phasing). Perhaps these were in response to the burning-up-the-boards multi-attack questions of yesteryear, and therefore the FAQ, etc. documents were updated to end that discussion... can't say I know for sure.
The best I can really do here is go back to that Judge thread and request that nb consider an update to the FAQ/E&C (and perhaps the next rulebook) specifically stating that non-attack actions can't be used for multi-attack (which is obviously how he and GD understand the 'trait' to work in the first place).
I have already started a thread on the topic on the Judges forum, feel free to chime in. I haven't gotten around to requesting it to be incorporated into the E&C yet, simply because I want to see what the answer is first...
Quote : Originally Posted by scholarx
Personally, I don't know why P/T, Regen. and Support were cherry-picked and specifically mentioned as the powers that shouldn't be used with it (after all, no colossal has Support, only Dark Phoenix has Regen., and only Spectre and now AM have Phasing). Perhaps these were in response to the burning-up-the-boards multi-attack questions of yesteryear, and therefore the FAQ, etc. documents were updated to end that discussion... can't say I know for sure.
My guess (which of course fits well with my view that you should be able to use Barrier etc with the multi-attack) is that those three powers were cherry-picked as they were deemed too powerful to be allowed to be used with multi-attack. But that is of course mere speculation.
There has been a lot of discussion about what can and cannot be used with the Multi-attack lately, and during this discussion a quote from this post was brought to my attention:
Quote : Originally Posted by nbperp
Quote : Originally Posted by omnimon177
1) Can one of the free actions from multi-attack be used to activate phasing/teleport? I really don't see why not, multi-attack gives a power action which could in theory be used to activate p/t.
It must be a power, ranged, or close combat action and it must be something that includes an attack.
My question: Does this mean you cannot use Force Blast, Smoke Cloud, Barrier or Telekinesis (to move a friendly figure or an object)? All of these are power actions, which should make them legal, but none include an attack.
Correct - the action must include an attack, so none of those powers would be usable as stated (you could still use TK Option 3 to attack with an object).
I've also seconded scholarx's request that this should be clarified further in the E&C.
I respectfully disagree with what you believe that line implies. For instance - do you have to make an attack roll when you target an object, square of blocking terrain, or wall? Can you target those things during a Multi-attack? It would seem that underlined part more likely implies attacks that don't require rolls.
...Truthfully, I think you missed the part that should really be emphasized in that line of text:
Also:
Don't these lines seem to infer to everyone that it's attacks you should be making?
You're totally right, I gotta admit I didn't think about attacks targeting walls/objects/blocking terrain.
Which completely invalidates my earlier post.
*mocks himself*
That being said, I do accept the rule as it is, it just didn't seem consistent to me, and I kinda needed to express that.
Thanks for clearing up my view here, monsieur.
*wondering why there isn't a :humble: smiley*
Quote : Originally Posted by Quebbster
My guess (which of course fits well with my view that you should be able to use Barrier etc with the multi-attack) is that those three powers were cherry-picked as they were deemed too powerful to be allowed to be used with multi-attack. But that is of course mere speculation.