I honestly don't know whether I want to bother covering the chases.

You should. I mean in a sense this thread promotes the set. We're expressing our opinions about what's good and bad and why. We don't know whether or not WizKids is reading it, but if they do, more opinions are better. Of course, I'm probably saying that knowing that you have a similar stance about chase figures.

Besides, how is it that different from you reviewing duo figures?

Duos (most of the ones seen) are conceptually poor and I'm unlikely to want them; the flaw is in the basic choice for design, taking two figures and making of them a common target being the most egregious element.

Chases are a rarity issue in a structure where I'm already inclined to say the rarity level of SRs since the Avengers set shift is abusive to any thinking buyer. Even buying two cases plus a few loose boosters for sealed events, the only set since the shift that I have a complete CUR set is Avengers, and that's due to a couple of gifts well after the fact. If one happens to pull doubles of high-end SRs then completion is theoretically an easy couple/few trades away, though at that point one may as well sell the extras and buy the two or three one's missing. If one didn't happen to pull a Sinestro from Crisis then, well, one's pretty much out of luck.

Chases take this up a notch, becoming instant commodities instead of being the fun character representations they should be. I find myself questioning whether or not I even want to spend time contemplating pieces I'm unlikely to own, which will go for secondary market prices I wouldn't consider paying a third of or which, if I do pull it, I'll be telling myself the responsible thing to do is to go to eBay and sell it off. It's all so unnecessary.

I'll still consider adding the two pieces to the reviews, but I'm not going to add anything right now.

My point (and maybe you haven't read my reviews of the two characters) is that I reviewed the fact that they were chases instead of the figure on it's own merits (much like you've done with the duo figures). Whether it's an issue of mechanics or rarity, that IMHO plays into how the character should be reviewed. Like Earth-2 Superman in Crisis, including Blackest Night's 2 major villians, and the core of the Black Lantern Corps as chase figures in the set that comes out the month BEFORE the starter of the same name, based on the same store line is basically a letter to all average consumers that NECA/WizKids doesn't really WANT us to buy Blackest Night because we'll never be able to play out the scenario we'd be purchasing the starter to play. IMHO it's like NECA/WizKids metaphorically aiming a shotgun at their own head and pulling the trigger.

I was SUPER EXCITED about the Blackest Night starter, but now that I know that I'll probably never have Nekron or this version of Black Hand, I really don't think I care anymore. Additionally, I won't care about any other Black Lanterns that are produced, because what would be the point without their leaders? It's almost as if someone expended effort to undo all the good that NECA has been doing (for the average consumer), in 1 single action.

Between Crisis and the Brave and the Bold, I honestly think I'm done collecting DC HeroClix. I'll stick with Marvel where I don't miss out on important characters because they're stupidly made into chase figures.

There is much I could say (and have said) about the whole Chase issue, but...I just don't want to argue (with you guys).

I know how you feel about chases in general, but right now, I'm talking specifically about how chases like Earth-2 Superman (and IMO Black Hand and Nekron) affect the average collector (and to me an average collector doesn't have the money to E-Bay chase figures) for this game.

lol you give the chase figs a 1 because of their great story tie-ins. the only thing i see from that is jealousy that you will probably never own them both. if you like a fig you should do whatever you can to get it. honestly that nekron is sick as nails. black hand is not shabby by any means. i really hate when people get sick of chase figs. just pretend they weren't made if that comforts you.

It's not jealousy. It's a lack of stupidity. I refuse to chase figures. I think it's a stupid gimmicky way to get people that have more money than brains to throw extra money at a hobby for no good reason. Give me a good product and generics (in the common slots) to keep me buying boosters, and I will. Chase figures are a counter-intuitive and exclusionary way to go about selling a product. I fail to see the "genius" in alienating your average customer to play towards a much smaller core of "elite" customers.

Added the chases for post #27, which dropped my exceitement meter a bit.

That would work great if a) no one I play with ever uses one and b) they weren't MAJOR CHARACTERS IN THE BIGGEST DC STORYLINE IN YEARS!

Yeah, pretending they don't exist for these characters doesn't work. Individual Black Lanterns? Sure, I could do that. The two leaders of the BL Corps? Yeah, that's much harder...

How exactly are figures which are great but you'll probably never be able to add to your collection supposed to build excitement? You do understand the purpose of this thread, right? It's not just to rate dials as good or bad, it's to rate your excitement over the figures in the set. I think the minimum scores for great figures who are key to the current major storyline and are way too hard to get (based on sets as recent as HoT) is a fair rating.

Post #4 updated with Black Hand and Nekron. The restraint was in not assigning them zeroes or negative numbers.

I have been reading what others have written, agreeing with some and disagreeing with others. A few of us have just been talking past each other, and not really in conflict even if it may seem so.

It continues to amaze me how many people are so ready to bend over for the chase scheme. It would almost be more comforting for me to think that most of the people writing to support the idea were simply trolls, looking to irritate someone, rather than tools and dupes trying to make it seem... noble(?) to just accept the situation.

I have an E-2 Superman, having pulled him as I have several other chases. That the piece is so unnecessarily rare has, instead of making me happier about having pulled him, made me sad each time I look at it. I haven't had the heart to even bring it out to a venue. There's no need for this sort of rarity. There really isn't. It's a cheap, dirty, marketing ploy conceived by petty, grubby little minds.

I could not disagree with these two assessments more. These are the perfect chase figures in my opinion. Characters who are not so mainstream and popular that making them chases seems like more of a cruel joke than anything else (See the last two DC sets choices for chase characters) but still desirable to the people who do want to get them.

As tempted as I am to just post a snarky response to it, I actually do agree a little with this line of thinking. Still:

1. This whole line of thinking seems like overreaction. I thought HeroClix was a collectible game. We aren't exactly entitled to every piece we want.

2. So far, chase pieces have been good for the bottom line. Given the choice between chases in sets and no sets at all, I'll take the chases.

3. This is the last of the old Topps sets. Perhaps NECA will be a little kinder with regards to chase character selection.

So, if I save up my pennies to get a Black Hand, I'm "elite" and "have more money than brains"? Because that's what i intend on doing. Why, because if I really want something in life, I have to do what it takes to get it...cause clearly they aren't just handing it to me.

Uniques and LEs used to be the same thing as Chases, but with less rarity. Still, we chased them. In fact, any time you are completing a set, no matter how long it takes you to get it done, you're still "chasing" figures. And I defy you to tell him how it's different-- The first you'll pull out is the amount they cost. And I will say irrelevant because cost is only determined by how much you are willing to pay.

I've been here for the entire evolution of your collecting habits. What is this "Average Customer" garbage, and when did you become one? And by contrast, what is an "Elite Customer" and why do I think I fit the bill? And how is a Chase figure alienating or catering to either? I'll tell you how -- It's not. Here's an example of an "elite customer" who hates chases with same lack of logic as you do -- hair10. Karl buys multiple cases of products, and so is more likely to get at least one of two (and I don't think he has failed to get one since Crisis), but he hates them to the pit of hell. Why? Because the rarity makes it harder to obtain. You can't collect sets with the strategies that have been time honored anymore. I know this, because obviously, I had to accept this new paradigm as well. Do I love them? No. IT MAKES IT HARDER FOR ME...that is why I have negative feeling at all about them. Beyond that, it makes it better for the company, so I can't get too worked up about it.

There is no way you are an "average customer" because of one huge fact (among others) -- You care too much. You see, the "average customer" does not buy a case. The "average customer" MAY buy a brick, but I seriously doubt it. The "average customer" doesn't have an hcrealms account. The "average customer" doesn't know (and likely doesn't care that) hcrealms even exists. From May til July of 2002, I WAS this "average customer" (minus bricks). You probably never were...you've been here longer than I have. This ridiculous demarkation of some elite and average line is just a convenient way to somehow make your emotional response to what you don't like about chase figures logical and legitimate. It's legit, because it's your opinion. But it's not logical...cause it's your opinion. But I find your opinion to be based more in "I can't have it" than anything else, because I know you spent years tracking down every single figure you were missing. Sure, you try to keep things financially in reason, but you still do it. Don't put me in some "elite" category because I am willing to do what you aren't in the event it's something I really want.

When are you going to accept that Wizkids isn't (and has never been) here to make it easy for you (or me) to obtain whatever-figure-your-heart-desires? It's about making a fun product we can all enjoy, sure, but it's an optional freakin' hobby. How deep you get into it is UP TO YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

The even more absurd thing about Chases in this particular set is, you weren't even getting a full set. You were just cherrypicking. So what does it matter what the Chases are, or even that are any to you? It changes nothing about what you were going to do regarding Brave and the Bold. NOTHING. It's not about set theme, and it's not about who is fighting who in Blackest Night. It's about you don't think you will be able to get them...bottom line. And still I say, you don't know that for certain.

But I will say this: My future responses about chases and who is "stupid", "elitist" or "average" will not be nearly as well reasoned or balanced. And take this for what it is -- tough love -- cause we all need somebody to tell us the truth.

Here's how I'd rank them in order from Greatest to Least:

#47 Mikron O'Jeneus
#48 Green Lantern and Green Arrow
#49 Kid Zoom
#50 The Flashes
#51 Inertia
#52 Metallo
#53 Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy
#54 Power Girl
#55 Superman

I'm expecting the next 46 characters to be not quite as terrible as the ones thus far.