He can be made better, but at 300 pts in a theme team he's limited. however that has more to do with limited keywords than anything else. I'll probably forgo the theme team and play him with Zatanna or something.

I for one will not play the new Superman unless I play him with the AE mechanic I just can't see spending 216 points for that SC Batman or Darkseid for less points. But as 48 points with the AE mechanic oh yeah he's awesome.

The people that go on and on about Superman needing a 12 attack or higher make me laugh. If he is so mighty and such a good fighter, then it is only a matter of time till we see Batman and Wolverine with 15 attack values.

I exaggerate, but so do people who say he is ruined or worthless. The only thing wrong with this Supes is his lack of a flight stand.

Have an open mind and try him out a few times at the 216 point level in some games.

Seriously, I think folk are judging this piece far too harshly without giving it a fair shake (or waiting for it to be actually released). He brings more to the battlefield than he doesn't.

Nah. I think we've all been here long enough to know what works for us and what doesn't. I'm not a n00b at this game. Heck, I've forgotten more about it than many will ever know. If that sounds egotistical, well, it is not. It's fact.

I have not forgotten that attack ratio and point cost are close to intrinsically connected. I understand precisely what he brings to the table, but without the ability to hit (or as I like to say "produce"), well high defense doesn't really mean much in a game where the points you keep on the table no longer matters. It would grate on me if that were the case, because nothing was more anger-inducing than watching Vet Superman fly up shoot somebody for 5 + then run and hide on a roof.

I'm not speaking of this Superman in a 'vacuum'. I'm not judging him solely in a universe populated by Superman. I'm judging him in a format where several available figures of lesser cost will make mincemeat out of him in a 300 point game (thankfully so far not to many in BatB, so there is that). Does he have good points? Sure. However, most of them are beside the point in Modern Age, where there are no feats to prop him up to an acceptible degree, let alone abusive. He is starting out needing 9's to hit so many people in Modern Age it's really hilarious...or sad.


On another subject:

Superman getting a 12 attack is a bit of a conundrum for the folks who want to throw out names of more 'skilled' fighters, but the fact is, it's part function and part accuracy. Superman isn't necessarily a 'trained fighter', but he is far more coordinated than a normal person, to a degree that would make him far better than a trained fighter. He's by definition "Super". If he lost those abilities, yeah, he wouldn't last two (ok, three) seconds against Batman or Wolverine on skill alone.

I feel like I'm another subject!

Yeah, this isnt the first time WK has done this. They love the look on my face when someone pulls out the flying trick.

This was never as bad as Karate Kid. I looked at him and thought, "Ok, another martial artist, whatever. Wait, how's he charging Taskmaster from there? ...HE FLIES??? What martial art is THAT?"

Judge didn't even rule it as cheating.

To me the damage values are what was always needed to be reigned in. try a game with heavy hitters and the power dampening field BFC, and see how different the game plays. I have always thought a printed value of 3 should have been the max damage value. You could still increase the damage with a character can do via cce, perplex, super strength and all the other powers. Before you shoot me try it and see. Before you shoot me just try it.

The argument that Superman is not a trained fighter is kind of void, because he actually is. Unless that was already retconned (I don't follow all the DC titles), he has been rather excessively trained in hand to hand combat by Wildcat, Batman (including some 'advanced techniques') and Mongul and while he is not the best martial artist in the world, he is quite proficient. Sure, he almost exclusively relies on his powers (and why wouldn't he), but there were occasions when he had to go without them and he wasn't exactly getting beat up left and right (which was the entire point of training btw - so he wouldn't get killed in case he lost them).

And just to point out, in the last DC set we got Superman Prime, who while definitely not a superbly trained fighter (at least to my knowledge) has almost all 11s and 12s on his Attack, only falling to 10 and 9 on his last Regeneration clicks.

Just my $0.02.

Sorry, can't buy that. If you were there at the beginning, there were already 4 damage figures printed with Infinity Challenge (which to be fair was supposed to come out AFTER Hypertime). And 3 damage on figures trying to take down 10 and 11 click figures just slows the game down to too high a degree. If 3 damage were the maximum, there just wouldn't be a point to playing figures over 100 points...here's looking at you Hypertime Superman.

Which is what happens with Power Dampening Field.

Sure. I know that. The Earth-2 Superman's Who's Who entry says he's a superb hand to hand combatant. But that doesn't mean he's a better fighter than Batman or Wildcat if he had no powers.

To bring that up, though, would have taken too long and i've posted enough bible chapters already this morning.

He's not the only click to undergo silly transformations of playability with enhancing or decreasing value look at the arrows how nothing quite compares to jl connor (im mean ollie and roy got close but still a little lacking) we get stupid variations w/ rising and falling stock that has an inexplicable intelligence behind them! who cares not much we can about that. What can call them(neca/wizkidz) on that incredulously (insert expletive here) comment on set balancing and how they want keep BatB on par HoT because for it clearly doesnt stand a chance because yeah these piece look like they will be blown out of the water by the asgardian happy set.(in the case of supes to me it always seems that puches dont miss its just that he holds them back unless hes fighting darkseid mongul doomsday and its not gunna be much better than vet icons still a ridiculous piece to fight)

Attack value is NOT just skill. Other things factor into it. Its like Galactus. He's obviously not difficult to hit, but his defense values are huge. I'm not a trained fighter at all, but I could certainly walk up to Galactus and punch him in the toe and "hit". WK opted not to make a "reduce damage by 3, 4, etc" power and instead add impervious and add to defense to compensate. This is the same with attack scores. Fighting skill matters, but so does the ability to successfully land a powerful blow. Even if Superman isn't a trained fighter he could throw punches at super speed and ONE will connect...

Superman's attack should be higher, but just because it isn't an auto-hit doesn't make him a bad piece. You have points left over to make him more than capable of connecting. You can use prob, perplex, or whatever to hit with and then have his high defense for protection. Its no different than perplexing up the defense of another Superman with a high attack, its just in reverse order. Attack values aren't based on "highs" that much. Perplexing a 12 attack to a 14 or so isn't necessary. But perplexing an 18 defense to a 20 is far more useful. Is he the best piece ever? No, he's not amazing or anything. But this piece certainly has his uses and brings another play style to the table. As has already been said, if you want 12 attack Superman he already exists. This is just the high defense version as opposed to high offense.

I personally love this Superman. He is consistent throughout his dial, and when you compare him to the other Superman dials(which Tyro did) you see that besides this starting click, he ends up being better than them.

I also like him because I can put him on a team and not rely solely on him. Put him with Clark Kent(wtf?!) and he has a 10 attack, which can hit nearly any figure. Also, I know I am not the only one who will be having fun with AE's. Turn support pieces into attackers? I love it.

I started with IC, and so did Slade for that matter, or a few sets later. Muncho boy has apparently been around since the beginning as well, so your statements just make you sound petulant.

Yes he'd be better for 5 points more with +1 Atk down his whole dial (or 7 clicks or whatever). Truthfully he wouldn't probably even cost 5 points more. But would that be good for the game? We've had several meta Supermans, I'm not distraught over not getting another.

However he does bring something new to your superman collection. It's not tier 1, most things aren't. Is he maybe hard to use in 300 points? Yeah, but most figures over 200 are as well. Basically your point seems to be he's not as Uber as Thor, to which I am totally non-plussed. Something in this set probably will be Thor/Cap/Herc/KC Superman level Uber, but I am in no way surprised that it's not superman. We've got Uber Supermans, not everyone has to be Uber , and the only way a whole set would be is if it completely outclassed every set before it. not what I want at this juncture.

Quite frankly the people complaining about Powergirl have a much stronger point because they have less of a field to choose from. This is the Fourth powergirl dial while this superman is our 12th, and that is not including energy superman or other universe versions (with those he'd be our 24th)