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And that something doesn't HAVE to be the same power. Even if I could use it on another target, I could instead use a different power on that target.
Hold on, now I'm confused. You can only change the action to a totally different type (RCE to a move action, or RCE to RS) if there are no other targets available right?
In other words, if you declare RCE and they make the shape change roll, you still have to RCE someone else if available.
Only when there are no available targets using your declared actions can you change to a different one right?
Hold on, now I'm confused. You can only change the action to a totally different type (RCE to a move action, or RCE to RS) if there are no other targets available right?
In other words, if you declare RCE and they make the shape change roll, you still have to RCE someone else if available.
Only when there are no available targets using your declared actions can you change to a different one right?
Since it as an "or" statement the answer is "it depends on the situation." Your declared RCE is illegal, therefore you give a different non-free action or simply change the target. If you use charge, RS or HSS, your free combat action is illegal and you give a different free action, but I don't think there is another free action you can use a that time, so you must attack some target.
Since it as an "or" statement the answer is "it depends on the situation." Your declared RCE is illegal, therefore you give a different non-free action. If you use charge, RS or HSS, your free combat action is illegal and you give a different free action.
Right, but if there is another target there to RCE then the declared RCE is still legal.
In the case where you declared a close combat attack and the person shape-changed and there are no other targets you can make a close combat attack against, then you can declare a different action.... break away to RS for instance. Or TK someone from afar. Had you been next to a wall and can do 3 damage, you'd have to hit that wall.
Right, but if there is another target there to RCE then the declared RCE is still legal.
In the case where you declared a close combat attack and the person shape-changed and there are no other targets you can make a close combat attack against, then you can declare a different action.... break away to RS for instance. Or TK someone from afar. Had you been next to a wall and can do 3 damage, you'd have to hit that wall.
Let's look at the definition of RCE:
Quote : Originally Posted by FF PAC
Ranged Combat Expert
Give this character a power action. It makes a ranged combat attack against a single target character...
So, if Shape Change is successful, your declaration of RCE is illegal. You could declare RCE again against a legal target, but you aren't forced to use RCE. To me, this is logical. What if you want to RCE a character with no damage reducer. It shape changes and the only other enemy has Impervious. It would make more sense that I would Psychic Blast the Impervious user instead of using RCE on it.
So, if Shape Change is successful, your declaration of RCE is illegal. You could declare RCE again against a legal target, but you aren't forced to use RCE. To me, this is logical. What if you want to RCE a character with no damage reducer. It shape changes and the only other enemy has Impervious. It would make more sense that I would Psychic Blast the Impervious user instead of using RCE on it.
Correct if the RCE becomes illegal you do not need to use RCE again, the action you declared is illegal, so you must give another non-free action.
What people are getting confused about is with charge/rs/hss since those are power actions that have a free action for an attack, since you have made the free action to attack and the attack is illegal you must give another free action if there is another legal target, if not then with charge/rs the action ends, with HSS you finish your movement.
So, if Shape Change is successful, your declaration of RCE is illegal. You could declare RCE again against a legal target, but you aren't forced to use RCE. To me, this is logical. What if you want to RCE a character with no damage reducer. It shape changes and the only other enemy has Impervious. It would make more sense that I would Psychic Blast the Impervious user instead of using RCE on it.
ok I think I get it now... since you declared a non-free action, RCE and it became illegal, then you can switch to another non-free action... TK, RS, etc.
However, if say you RS'd and you picked PB as the free action and that was SC'd, then you have to stick with RS and pick a different free action... which could be a simple ranged attack on a wall.
There are very few explicit rules about the timing of Declaring Targets and there are little to no rules that clearly explain how an action can become illegal.
That basically leaves you with Tradition.
Most of which stems from the discussions of Shape Change and Wild Cards copying the Bat Ally TA.
The tradition is that if drawing a LoF to your intended target would no longer be allowed because of Shape Change or a sudden switch to the Bat Ally TA...then your action is considered to be illegal even if there is another valid target.
With Shape Change this essentially frees you to declare the same action with a different target or a different action altogether.
Dont expect a clear rule on this situation, because there really isnt one.
Now bear in mind that the HSS, RS, Charge and similar questions are slightly different as those are Actions or Attacks within another action at a specific time within the action. While you can rechoose the target of the attack or take a particularly different free action you can not change the timing of the action.
For example with HSS, Charge, and RS you can not continue moving because once you have chosen to attack you are executing the Free Action. Once you complete the Free Action you can complete the balance of HSS but not until you finish resolving the Free Action. Similarly with RS and Charge, you can not start the Free Action until you have completed your movement.
There are a ton of similar special powers as well.
"A Jester unemployed is nobody's fool." - The Court Jester "And so he says, I don't like the cut of your jib, and I go, I says it's the only jib I got, baby!
ok I think I get it now... since you declared a non-free action, RCE and it became illegal, then you can switch to another non-free action... TK, RS, etc.
However, if say you RS'd and you picked PB as the free action and that was SC'd, then you have to stick with RS and pick a different free action... which could be a simple ranged attack on a wall.
That is correct. The non-free action (moving) was not made illegal. Your free action (PB) was made illegal. You must give a different free action if able.
Correct if the RCE becomes illegal you do not need to use RCE again, the action you declared is illegal, so you must give another non-free action.
What people are getting confused about is with charge/rs/hss since those are power actions that have a free action for an attack, since you have made the free action to attack and the attack is illegal you must give another free action if there is another legal target, if not then with charge/rs the action ends, with HSS you finish your movement.
In other words, there is a bit of risk involved with Charging/RS'ing/HSS'ing a character with shape change... you could end up with nothing.
Is it better to declare something that doesn't give you a free action within the action then? Or you simply make sure you have other targets available if they make the SC.
Is it better to declare something that doesn't give you a free action within the action then? Or you simply make sure you have other targets available if they make the SC.
Tactically most good players work out a Plan B in case the opponent makes his shape change roll. This varies from....
HSS Position at range to shoot alt target
Multi-Target
Outwit Shape Change before you go in
Use EE Splash to hit the target anyway
Dont worry about it..he will miss his Shape Change eventually
"A Jester unemployed is nobody's fool." - The Court Jester "And so he says, I don't like the cut of your jib, and I go, I says it's the only jib I got, baby!
Tactically most good players work out a Plan B in case the opponent makes his shape change roll. This varies from....
HSS Position at range to shoot alt target
Multi-Target
Outwit Shape Change before you go in
Use EE Splash to hit the target anyway
Dont worry about it..he will miss his Shape Change eventually
Very true. You know you've graduated from newbie to a "good" player when you start thinking of a Plan B automatically.
Actually, you also know you've graduated when you've decreased the number of times you say "what?!" in a game. We call that the what-moment. Usually the player with the least what-moments wins.