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I personally think that the points should be awarded to the opponent that did the action that you used the card for. If you attack my Captain America, and I use Protected, but Cap hasn't taken damage, then I think you should get the points for me using the card.
In a 3 or more player game, the points should be awarded the same way as I described above.
That's how we rule it round these parts, and that's all I care about.
Longest-Reigning Drunken HeroClix Champion - anyone got a liver?
It's also not a SERIOUS LOOPHOLE [dun dun dunnnnnnn].
It's a bit of words goofery that effects, like, three cards that will only show up in Golden age games, that basically says there's a gray area around a rule that I'm sure everyone is playing correctly anyways.
That's kind of what I was driving at. I thought maybe I was misunderstanding the issue or something.
I personally think that the points should be awarded to the opponent that did the action that you used the card for. If you attack my Captain America, and I use Protected, but Cap hasn't taken damage, then I think you should get the points for me using the card.
In a 3 or more player game, the points should be awarded the same way as I described above.
That would be the sensible way to rule it. I'm sure that was the intent. And as Thrumble Funk said....that's the way it's gonna be, unless nbperp or the RD's say differently. Judging by Quebbster's responses to this thread, my guess is that's not going to happen.
Edit: By "that's not going to happen" I mean "he doesn't appear to disagree". Looking at my post again I realized it could be taken as "they're blowing us off!". Not my intent.
Last edited by noregretz; 06/07/2010 at 17:15..
Reason: Clarification
It's also not a SERIOUS LOOPHOLE [dun dun dunnnnnnn].
It's a bit of words goofery that effects, like, three cards that will only show up in Golden age games, that basically says there's a gray area around a rule that I'm sure everyone is playing correctly anyways.
If it's not a serious issue then why is there a conspiracy against VGA d1sc1pL3?
First they move his thread, then ask for some constructive comments instead of just letting him complain! Why can't he just get the recognition he deserves for noticing this? WHY? WHYYYYYYYYY?
The matter is being discussed - here, and on the deputies' forum.
I don't understand why you insist that a deputy needs to come up with the solution though...
Kind of their jobs to answer rule questions isn't it? Seems to me instead of antagonizing the OP you could have just said the matter is being discussed and we will get back to you, or the matter is being discussed and we would like input from others on it, or we don't see it as a problem and it should be ruled as written.
We all could come up with construction suggestions, but they don't mean jack with an official ruling from an RA or Sheriff...
...But it doesn't matter what I think... We need a ruling to clear this loophole up. One way or the other. Isn't that your guys job? If not, make me a Rules Sheriff, and I'll fix the damn loophole.
We don't need a ruling for this on this forum, it is to be ruled as you have correctly described it, but an acknowledgment from the RA that this either will or won't be addressed in the next PG update might be in order. Intent Rulings on this site are meaningless until those intents are reflected as changes in the official documents (rulebook, PAC, PG, etc.) Players can't be expected to search through forum threads and posts for the rules of Heroclix. The rules are to be interpreted as they are written in the official docs. Rule loopholes are often discovered in this games complex rules, and some are fixed in subsequent PG updates or rulebooks, and some are not.
By the way, good catch... I didn't realize that "loophole" until you brought it up.
Quote : Originally Posted by nbperp
Things which might lack clarity now will be certain to reflect those intentions.
The matter is being discussed - here, and on the deputies' forum.
I don't understand why you insist that a deputy needs to come up with the solution though...
Quebbster, this would have been fine for you tell me this in the beginning, instead of basically trolling me, telling me it doesn't matter, moving my post from the appropriate forum to here.
As a rules sheriff, a "I don't know, I'll look into it," would have been fine with me, and I would have patiently awaited a reply.
I posted this way back when the Fantastic Four Rulebook was posted, and was treated the same way. I know you can't stand me, but I treat you with respect, and I respect your authority here whether you believe me or not. But it's a two-way street.
Quote : Originally Posted by Hellboy
or instantly. The rulesbook isn't even officially released for two more days.
True, but this loophole was in the Fantastic Four Rulebook as well, and I brought it up then, and it was blown off then as well.
Quote : Originally Posted by absolutvt69
Ok does the question boil down to "If someone uses Protected and then doesn't take any more damage does anyone get the 8 points"? Because I know what the answer will be at my venue. I realize rules are rules but we have judges for a reason. Even though this apparently isn't spelled out in black and white, if you're a judge then you're the authority at the event and what you say goes. If two of my players are playing and Player A hits Player B's figure and Player B uses Protected, Player A gets 8 points for it no matter what else happens the rest of the match. In a multi-player game, I'd give it to whoever made the attack that caused the Protected to be used. I don't think any of my players or other players I know would disagree with that to begin with (and most probably assume that's the way it is already). I'm not sure what the alternatives would be in a two player game. No one gets the points? The player who used the Protected gets the points? Yes there probably should be something in the rules about this... but until then I don't think this is a difficult call to make... and even if you did make a different call, you're the judge that's your discretion.
Quote : Originally Posted by Thrumble Funk
That's how we rule it round these parts, and that's all I care about.
Thruble Funk, you are right on the money, and this is how I've been ruling it. But since the rules don't say it, my player's have a good argument against that ruling.
Quote : Originally Posted by asininelad
If it's not a serious issue then why is there a conspiracy against VGA d1sc1pL3?
First they move his thread, then ask for some constructive comments instead of just letting him complain! Why can't he just get the recognition he deserves for noticing this? WHY? WHYYYYYYYYY?
Spoiler (Click in box to read)
I'm being facetious.
It's ok bro, I got a laugh from your post. But watch out, Big Brother is watching us, and those black helicopters are circling my house.
Quote : Originally Posted by csi
Kind of their jobs to answer rule questions isn't it? Seems to me instead of antagonizing the OP you could have just said the matter is being discussed and we will get back to you, or the matter is being discussed and we would like input from others on it, or we don't see it as a problem and it should be ruled as written.
Thank you. But it seems that Quebbster loves to antagonize me. See his replies to me in the Boneyard's WotSM list thread. He seems to enjoy it.
But it is what it is, and my trolling and flaming days are long behind me.
Quote : Originally Posted by ThwartHog
We don't need a ruling for this on this forum, it is to be ruled as you have correctly described it, but an acknowledgment from the RA that this either will or won't be addressed in the next PG update might be in order. Intent Rulings on this site are meaningless until those intents are reflected as changes in the official documents (rulebook, PAC, PG, etc.) Players can't be expected to search through forum threads and posts for the rules of Heroclix. The rules are to be interpreted as they are written in the official docs. Rule loopholes are often discovered in this games complex rules, and some are fixed in subsequent PG updates or rulebooks, and some are not.
By the way, good catch... I didn't realize that "loophole" until you brought it up.
Thanks a bunch for the reply. I agree with you. I found the same loophole in the Fantastic Four Rulebook, and brought it up then, and I was blown off then too.
But it is what it is, and my trolling and flaming days are long behind me.
No, seems like you're doing pretty good at trolling. I don't see anything wrong with what Quebbster's done here and you taking an offensive stance against him as soon as he popped up was pretty flamey.
Quote
Thruble Funk, you are right on the money, and this is how I've been ruling it. But since the rules don't say it, my player's have a good argument against that ruling.
If you're the judge and you're ruling it as you say you are, your players need to shut up and respect your ruling. They don't like it, they can judge so you can play the game.
At my venue if a player loses a feat card, it's points are awarded to the opponent. Of course we never play a battle royal when prizes are being awarded, just for fun.
Originally posted by JBShip628: Cosmic Spider-Man's LoF is NEVER blocked. See that Batman 4 tables down. Yeah, Cosmic Spidey can shoot at him.
Bottom line: too much reading into the rules and lawyering it up. Why not just go, "ah, that wasn't the intent" and award the player 8 points for burning the Protected?
Way less aspirin used.
Are you a PbP'r (Play By Poster)? Come and check out www.creationmatrix.com; we've got EVERYTHING.
Bottom line: too much reading into the rules and lawyering it up. Why not just go, "ah, that wasn't the intent" and award the player 8 points for burning the Protected?
Way less aspirin used.
This.
It's obvious what the spirit and intent of the situation is, why not just do what is obvious, instead of nit-picking?
I'll take a swing: "If a Feat is removed during an opposing player's turn, award that opposing player Victory Points equal to the Feat's value. Otherwise, divide the Feat's value equally among all opposing players."
From all suggestions posted so far, IMO the simplest in wording and closest to "intent".
Has the added bonus of avoiding wording referring to damaged/eliminated/other corner condition nonsense, which frankly should never factor into disposable feat victory point assignment (only the removal of the feat, and when, should be considered).
It's also not a SERIOUS LOOPHOLE [dun dun dunnnnnnn].
It's a bit of words goofery that effects, like, three cards that will only show up in Golden age games, that basically says there's a gray area around a rule that I'm sure everyone is playing correctly anyways.
Tell the truth my friend. This is such a non-issue that the question should never have been proposed. And I don't think calling the mod useless is being respectful. Oh, and he should stop being paranoid. Its creepy.