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If there has been no change to the text of the card, then A applies.
OR
If there has been a change to the text via the player's guide, then B applies.
That's an extremely generous reading of what it says. It may be what's intended, but it in no way says that. (See my examples.)
Quote : Originally Posted by Harpua
At the moment, B is a little tricky. The ultimate goal is that previously issued feats will be updated via PnP to include the most recent text. Until that happens, however, you have to use option A as there is no PnP version with the proper text.
Where is that exception in the rules? If what you said above is true (I maintain it doesn't say that, but you've argued it does), then you must do B when there is an errata. The rules do not make an exception the way you're reading them.
Quote : Originally Posted by Harpua
If you want to have the PnP version of the older feat and staple the PG text to it, that's fine, heck I'd even encourage it, but I can assure you that the official ruling is that you need to have a printout of the actual card, not just the text.
I'm willing to agree that artwork is required. Since there is an obvious contradiction in the rules, I didn't read it the way you did. I originally read to remove a contradiction which basically made "The printed element must not represent the game text differently than (a) how the printed element originally appeared or (b) how the printed element is currently ruled/worded as per the HeroClix Player’s Guide: Golden Age," the only requirement. In other words, I read that as only requiring text. I can see your argument requiring artwork.
Quote : Originally Posted by Harpua
Moreover, you need a printed out copy for each instance of use.
Because of the Player's Guide, not the HeroClixComprehensive Tournament Rules. (I don't think the HeroClixComprehensive Tournament Rules address that issue one way or the other.)
Well, please do whatever you can to inform Wizkids that they should give all players an official Print and Play source on their website.
They keep telling us what we need to do but do not give us the tools to make it happen. If they want us to have printed feats, up to date and in their entirety, then shouldn't they have the responsibility to provide an image of the feat for us to print?
The ATAs are only found by searching through old posts on their site, and I am not even sure that the Marvel ATAs were ever even made. I am not saying that they weren't, just that I do not recall seeing them and if I did I certainly do not remember where and have no clues just by looking at the post headers. Nothing like "The Marvel ATAs are here!" to be found.
Well, please do whatever you can to inform Wizkids that they should give all players an official Print and Play source on their website.
They keep telling us what we need to do but do not give us the tools to make it happen. If they want us to have printed feats, up to date and in their entirety, then shouldn't they have the responsibility to provide an image of the feat for us to print?
The ATAs are only found by searching through old posts on their site, and I am not even sure that the Marvel ATAs were ever even made. I am not saying that they weren't, just that I do not recall seeing them and if I did I certainly do not remember where and have no clues just by looking at the post headers. Nothing like "The Marvel ATAs are here!" to be found.
First, complete agreement with your sentiment. (The Marvel ATAs were made. They are in the easy to find article titled "Normal Distribution – GenCon Update!" because what announces the Marvel TAs better than that?)
On a side note, even the WizKids gallery includes now banned feat versions of some of the ATAs. If WizKids wants to create rules, they should be willing to play by them.
And harping on it like this will get that done as easy as 1, 2, 3, 4.
It might get WizKids to change the rules. The rules possee (deputies and arbitrator) do read most of the threads in this rules forum (you included) and has the best contact with WizKids and could get a change to the rules. (Although I'll say with dismay that it's near impossible to get a change to the rules. We've seen that opposition time after time.)
Quote : Originally Posted by Harpua
But really, how are they not "playing by the rules" here?
They've published everything which is only available via print and play. It may not be directly accessible, but it is there.
I disagree that the rules say this, but you said that when the text of a feat or BFC has been changed via the player's guide, then the printed element must include that wording. You've also acknowledged that doing that is extremely difficult because WizKids hasn't made updated feats/BFCs available. Creating a rule when you don't provide the tools for people to follow those rules is not playing by your own rules.
WizKids also hasn't made the older feats/BFCs available on their own site, nor have they organized the ATAs in an easy to find manner. (It really shouldn't be that difficult to put the corrected ATAs in the gallery. It should be as easy as 1, 2, 3, 4.) I don't think a player should be required to go to an outside source (something other than WizKids' website) to participate in Print and Play.
Print and Play should actually be as easy as cutting from the Player's Guide. What is the rationale for not making this the rule?
Quote : Originally Posted by Harpua
The old versions are still there. So what? They're presence doesn't change the fact that they're not usable.
Why list a banned element? How does that enhance the game? How does it not confuse a new player who goes to the WizKids' website?