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If you interpret Pulse Wave with the added phrase, it would make it illegal for Colossal characters to use Pulse wave without any non-adjacent opposing characters.
We are still waiting to find out whether a colossal character can use Pulse Wave if all opposing characters within range are adjacent.
We are still waiting to find out whether a colossal character can use Pulse Wave if all opposing characters within range are adjacent.
I wouldn't think they should...could. Simply by needing to be able to make a Ranged Action in the first place. If they're adjacent to opposing figs like that then their own rules prohibit that. they need that one non adjacent within range to be able to legally make that Ranged Action.
WizKids GamePlay, "You can only play our game if you buy the new stuff. Those old figures are dirty and obsolete."
Record vs VGA d1sc1pL3: W-3 L-0
I wouldn't think they should...could. Simply by needing to be able to make a Ranged Action in the first place. If they're adjacent to opposing figs like that then their own rules prohibit that. they need that one non adjacent within range to be able to legally make that Ranged Action.
That's not correct. The rule book says:
"If the range value is greater than 0 and your character is not adjacent to an opposing character, then your character can make a ranged combat attack."
There is no requirement that a character not be adjacent to an opposing character in order to give a character a ranged combat action. Look at the way Sharpshooter is written:
"This character can make ranged combat attacks against adjacent opposing characters."
It says nothing about ranged combat actions. If you couldn't give ranged combat actions to figures with adjacent opposing figures, Sharpshooter wouldn't work as written!
So, no, the ranged combat action is not the sticky point here.
Keep in mind that everything in this game needs an action to activate. Even the effects you mentioned (HSS and Duo Attack) triggered off power actions. You can't do a ranged combat attack without having given some kind of action.
Completely not true. There are plenty of effects in the game that don't require an action to activate. Stealth, Colossal Size, Giant Size, Battlefield Conditions, lots of traits, all of the defensive powers, etc.
If you said every attack needs an action to activate, then you might be onto something.
Quote : Originally Posted by Magnito
In other words, it's all Vlad's fault.
Quote : Originally Posted by Masenko
Though I'm pretty sure if we ever meet rl, you get a free junk shot on me.
Quote : Originally Posted by Thrumble Funk
Vlad is neither good nor evil. He is simply Legal.
Completely not true. There are plenty of effects in the game that don't require an action to activate. Stealth, Colossal Size, Giant Size, Battlefield Conditions, lots of traits, all of the defensive powers, etc.
If you said every attack needs an action to activate, then you might be onto something.
You are correct. I meant something that would generate an attack always derives from some type of action. But you are correct that I didn't state that explictly enough. (Although as Hero_guy mentioned we now have the weirdness that is the Frost Giant's Spear Throw.)
Let's summarize this a little :
The question is : can a colossal character use Pulse Wave if there is no opposing characters in range except adjacents one ?
The argument in favor of it :
- Any character with a range greater than 0 can make a ranged combat attack, under the right circumstances ;
- Standard characters cannot make ranged combat attack when adjacent to opposing figures, but colossal can ;
- Colossal character cannot make ranged combat against opposing characters, but having legal targets is not an issue when it comes to Pulse Wave : PW does not taregt anybody. To make a PW attack all you need is to have at least 1 opposing character in range, which would be the case with adjacents opposing characters
In other word, because PW doesn't target and because adjacency doesn't prevent a colossal from making a ranged comabt attack under the right circunstances, PW should be able to be used.
The argument against is simple, and is all about "the right circumstances" :
- Colossal size doesn't allow the colossal to make a ranged combat agaisnt an adjacent character. No mention is made of "target" anywhere in the ability description, so it doesn't matter iof the attack targets or not : if there are only adjacent opposing character, the colossal cannot attack any of them with a range combat attack, so he cannot use Pulse Wave, which is a ranged combat attack.
I think I get it all. Feel free to corect me if I've missed something.
You know everyone loves to be the villain. Hugh Grant
Well everything *in the world* is an interpretation
Nothing is never *ever* universal enough not to be
Views are interpretation, opinions, or faith at best
Even "known facts" (the only thing really universal) is subject to interpretation since we see them through our senses (not always reliable) and discuss about it through language (even if the fact is "universally true", the way we communicate about it can be interpreted differently from people to people). Only the simplier subjects can *seem* simple enough to not be interpretable. But game rules in heroclix aren't (and were never) simple enough to qualify.
As i write this, i remember i'm not a native english speaker, and some of what i say here can be misinterpreted too, since i'm not 100% sure those words reflects my thoughts accurately enough
"If the range value is greater than 0 and your character is not adjacent to an opposing character, then your character can make a ranged combat attack."
There is no requirement that a character not be adjacent to an opposing character in order to give a character a ranged combat action. Look at the way Sharpshooter is written:
"This character can make ranged combat attacks against adjacent opposing characters."
It says nothing about ranged combat actions. If you couldn't give ranged combat actions to figures with adjacent opposing figures, Sharpshooter wouldn't work as written!
So, no, the ranged combat action is not the sticky point here.
It is the that allows them to make said Ranged Actions/Attacks. does not allow that; unless there is another non-adjacent opposing figure within range.
So without that figure they wouldn't be able to activate said Action/Attack. It would be deemed Illegal. That non-adjacent foe is what makes the able to do that just like the allows them to do what they do.
Quote : Originally Posted by clameire
Well everything *in the world* is an interpretation
Nothing is never *ever* universal enough not to be
Views are interpretation, opinions, or faith at best
Even "known facts" (the only thing really universal) is subject to interpretation since we see them through our senses (not always reliable) and discuss about it through language (even if the fact is "universally true", the way we communicate about it can be interpreted differently from people to people). Only the simplier subjects can *seem* simple enough to not be interpretable. But game rules in heroclix aren't (and were never) simple enough to qualify.
As i write this, i remember i'm not a native english speaker, and some of what i say here can be misinterpreted too, since i'm not 100% sure those words reflects my thoughts accurately enough
LOL, this reminds me of someone trying to be Sheldon and holding a superior attitude over others.
I Keed. I Keed,
WizKids GamePlay, "You can only play our game if you buy the new stuff. Those old figures are dirty and obsolete."
Record vs VGA d1sc1pL3: W-3 L-0
It is the that allows them to make said Ranged Actions/Attacks. does not allow that; unless there is another non-adjacent opposing figure within range.
Sharpshooter allows the character to make a ranged combat ATTACK when adjacent. There is nothing in the rules preventing a character from being given a ranged combat ACTION when adjacent, IF they can make a ranged combat attack, or be given a ranged combat action to do something other than attack.
For example:
Quote
Trick Arrows: Give Speedy a ranged combat action;
Speedy can remove from the game up to three hindering
terrain markers or barrier terrain markers (removing
markers one at a time) to which he has a clear line of fire at
the time the marker is removed, after which he can make a
ranged combat attack.
If Speedy is adjacent to an opposing character, he could be given a ranged combat action, remove the hindering or barrier markers, and then not make an attack. Why? Because the rules say nothing about not being able to be given a ranged combat action when adjacent to an opposing character; you just normally can't do it because it would lead to an attack, and the attack would be illegal. But since Speedy's attack is optional, he can indeed be given a ranged combat action while next to an opposing character.
Or, in other words, Suttkus is right. The ranged combat action is irrelevant to the Colossal situation; the question is only if they can make a ranged combat ATTACK.
Quote : Originally Posted by Magnito
In other words, it's all Vlad's fault.
Quote : Originally Posted by Masenko
Though I'm pretty sure if we ever meet rl, you get a free junk shot on me.
Quote : Originally Posted by Thrumble Funk
Vlad is neither good nor evil. He is simply Legal.
Where this ruling seems conflict other rulings is in the question of "Why can't you Pulse Wave when adjacent to opposing characters?" If you can draw a line of fire to them you can activate Pulse Wave. After Pulse Wave is activated you ignore the rule pertaining to Ranged Combat Attacks and adjacency because Pulse Wave doesn't target. So it would seem that it would be legal to use Pulse Wave when adjacent to opposing characters.
Just pretend you're doing those things in reverse order. You can't draw LoF to an adjacent enemy figure to make a Ranged Combat Attack, so you wouldn't be able to Pulsewave.
Until there's a rules changes saying you can. Pulsewave is annoying to deal with, but fun to play. Now, if Nemesis can just PW and roll double to knock everone off a roof, I'll be happy.
Vulture: I'll drop you from the sky and watch you drop like a rag doll! Spider-Man: And this'll be when? After Ock rips me limb from limb? Or after Venom eats my brains? Oh, I almost forgot; he also has dibs on my spleen...
If Speedy is adjacent to an opposing character, he could be given a ranged combat action, remove the hindering or barrier markers, and then not make an attack. Why? Because the rules say nothing about not being able to be given a ranged combat action when adjacent to an opposing character; you just normally can't do it because it would lead to an attack, and the attack would be illegal. But since Speedy's attack is optional, he can indeed be given a ranged combat action while next to an opposing character.
Ok, then why can or not use Pulsewave when they are adjacent to an opposing figure? Pulsewave is a Ranged Combat Action.
By your reasoning that an adjacent opposing figure does not prevent me from using a Ranged Combat Action then any figure with PW is allowed to use it when adjacent to an opposing figure, regardless of their attack type.
WizKids GamePlay, "You can only play our game if you buy the new stuff. Those old figures are dirty and obsolete."
Record vs VGA d1sc1pL3: W-3 L-0
Ok, then why can or not use Pulsewave when they are adjacent to an opposing figure? Pulsewave is a Ranged Combat Action.
By your reasoning that an adjacent opposing figure does not prevent me from using a Ranged Combat Action then any figure with PW is allowed to use it when adjacent to an opposing figure, regardless of their attack type.
Plus, if I'm able to use a Ranged Combat Action while adjacent to an opposing figure then I am able to use PB, EE and use RS to make an attack from an adjacent square. I could even Incap while adjacent with a Ranged action to avoid Combat Reflexes.
WizKids GamePlay, "You can only play our game if you buy the new stuff. Those old figures are dirty and obsolete."
Record vs VGA d1sc1pL3: W-3 L-0
Ok, then why can or not use Pulsewave when they are adjacent to an opposing figure? Pulsewave is a Ranged Combat Action.
By your reasoning that an adjacent opposing figure does not prevent me from using a Ranged Combat Action then any figure with PW is allowed to use it when adjacent to an opposing figure, regardless of their attack type.
No, they still can't make a ranged combat ATTACK while adjacent to an opposing character. Pulse Wave includes an attack, so it can't be done while adjacent. As has been stated before, there is a difference between not being able to make an attack and not being able to be given an action.
Quote : Originally Posted by Magnito
In other words, it's all Vlad's fault.
Quote : Originally Posted by Masenko
Though I'm pretty sure if we ever meet rl, you get a free junk shot on me.
Quote : Originally Posted by Thrumble Funk
Vlad is neither good nor evil. He is simply Legal.
No, they still can't make a ranged combat ATTACK while adjacent to an opposing character. Pulse Wave includes an attack, so it can't be done while adjacent. As has been stated before, there is a difference between not being able to make an attack and not being able to be given an action.
Thank-You. And the allows for Ranged Combat Attacks to be made.
"This character can’t be knocked back and can make ranged combat attacks against non-adjacent opposing characters when they are adjacent to opposing characters."
Now you go to PW and draw LOF to every character within range. Now these can be drawn to friendly figures as well, which normally is not allowed. Check page 8 of the BD rulebook bottom paragraph last sentence.
It is PW that is allowing you to damage the adjacent characters. That is what is changing the rule on hitting adjacent foes, not the Ranged Action/Attack. If it were the case then a would be able to use EE against an adjacent foe when they could normally target a non-adjacent one.
WizKids GamePlay, "You can only play our game if you buy the new stuff. Those old figures are dirty and obsolete."
Record vs VGA d1sc1pL3: W-3 L-0
"This character can’t be knocked back and can make ranged combat attacks against non-adjacent opposing characters when they are adjacent to opposing characters."
It all depends on how you read this sentence.
I read the sentence to mean that the only time a colossal can make a ranged combat attack while adjacent to an opposing character is when a non-adjacent opposing character is present.
Others are reading it to mean that colossal characters can always make a ranged combat attack, but when they target with that attack they can only target non-adjacent characters.
If the first is the case then you can't Pulse Wave when only adjacent characters are present. If the second is the correct reading than you can't Pulse Wave.
I wish we could get a ruling on this, because it really could go either way.