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Really Munchoboy, this is a silly statement. Back in the day, there was only one map provided. There were no maps that were outright NOT allowed.
Try though they might to say it isn't "map retirement", venues want to play like tournaments for commonality. This will become a guideline for venues to start allowing only certain maps, which will eventually lead to players saying "I don't want to play on XYZ map, because it isn't Heroclix approved" or something equally incorrect in all but name. Then it becomes reality.
This IS a dangerous precedent (for a game of semi-collectible mini plastic superheroes ) that will have an impact on most players. There is no reason to chide those that are nervous about what this means for the future of the game we all love. It IS a change.
His statement is "silly" Actually this statement you just made is sillier for the fact that Venues will do what they want no matter what ! Always have and always will, and as saying something isn't Heroclix approved, really! I do give people who play the game more credit than that to know the difference. And it is only a change for the Worlds event nothing else.... Nothing like breaking out the torches and pitchforks..
They made good choices WK is doing a good job and even giving a heads up to the event, really complaints can be found everywhere, everyone will just have to adjust....
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That's why I said it's essentially a tournament ban list.
Regardless of how stated, it excludes otherwise rules-legal game elements based on 'editorial' choice of meta-game impact.
That is true for some of the maps that have been left off of the "allowed" list, but not all choices were made on meta-game impact. Was the Hellboy/BPRD map really abused that much? It's probably one of the best maps for all of the characters that have water-based special powers and definitely slows down a good number of the Hypersonic characters.
-Top 16 Finalist - 2007, 2008 HeroClix World Championship
2007 HeroClix World Championship Fellowship winner (uncredited on WK site)
If I was playing in Worlds (I'm not) and I had to face a Nightcrawler team I'd probably pick the Fountains of Asgard map. There's not a whole lot of places for Nightcrawler to hide out there.
That's a good choice because of the limited hindering, but he can still position with the elevated terrain to cut off line of sight to him. Out of the 15 maps that are allowed, I'm not yet sure which one I would choose if facing a Nightcrawler team.
Still, it is very nice to have the possible choices narrowed down in advance!
-Top 16 Finalist - 2007, 2008 HeroClix World Championship
2007 HeroClix World Championship Fellowship winner (uncredited on WK site)
Also, if this is essentially a tournament ban list for maps . . . why not a tournament ban list for characters?
How about something as simple as: Any of the figures designed by a world champion cannot be played in a World's event.
Nightcrawler is obviously a fanboy dial with little to no game balance. Massu's Black Adam will likely fall into the same category.
Let me ask this: withought a Nightcrawler in the picture, what would be played? Are there any other figures in Modern Age that are so broken that they would need to be banned competitively?
That is true for some of the maps that have been left off of the "allowed" list, but not all choices were made on meta-game impact. Was the Hellboy/BPRD map really abused that much? It's probably one of the best maps for all of the characters that have water-based special powers and definitely slows down a good number of the Hypersonic characters.
I think the Anura temple map has a fairly large "screw you!" factor as it severely hampers teams with low mobility - a team of mostly figures will be slowed down significantly, and flying ranged combatants are very powerful there. Fortunately there's a fair share of water on the Fountains of Asgard and Bridge maps too...
Quote : Originally Posted by iceman243
That's a good choice because of the limited hindering, but he can still position with the elevated terrain to cut off line of sight to him.
Absolutely, but it is definitely easier to outmaneuver Nightcrawler when Stealth is less of a factor.
Quote : Originally Posted by krusticlese
How about something as simple as: Any of the figures designed by a world champion cannot be played in a World's event.
Nightcrawler is obviously a fanboy dial with little to no game balance. Massu's Black Adam will likely fall into the same category.
I realize Nightcrawler has left a sour taste in many people's mouths, but do you really need to condemn Black Adam before you have seen the dial?
Also, if this is essentially a tournament ban list for maps . . . why not a tournament ban list for characters?
Because Nightcrawler would be target # 1 and it seems as if they're pretty determined not to make any changes to him. If he wins Worlds I'm sure those ignoring his power will be " well Krakoa kills him and normally you'll have Krakoa".
Quote : Originally Posted by sengirv
No Krokoa? Then why make it? Why subject the masses to it's effects, but shield the upper echelon?
I dunno. I can sorta see the rationale for most of the list but Days of Future Past , Hellboy, and the Mars map should be good game experiences and I think the Junkyard and the Graveyard could turn into negative play experiences way quicker than those two.
Quote : Originally Posted by Quebbster
I realize Nightcrawler has left a sour taste in many people's mouths, but do you really need to condemn Black Adam before you have seen the dial?
Agreed. Plus Black Adam fits into the damage dealing brick category and will at least be +100 points so his effectiveness might be easier to immediately spot and compare to other figures in the game.
I think the Anura temple map has a fairly large "screw you!" factor as it severely hampers teams with low mobility - a team of mostly figures will be slowed down significantly, and flying ranged combatants are very powerful there. Fortunately there's a fair share of water on the Fountains of Asgard and Bridge maps too...
"screw you!" factor, Ha! that made my day at work. Very true about hampering the teams with low mobility, but can't that be said about any map? If your team consists of mostly figures, you could face a tough time on several maps, including the junkyard.
And not that I expect anyone to build a team around a water-based special power in the finals (but would love to see GROOT!). But the big difference between Anura temple and the other two you mentioned is the way the water is spread out on the Anura Temple map. Bridge - you only have water on the edges. Asgard - water is only in the middle.
-Top 16 Finalist - 2007, 2008 HeroClix World Championship
2007 HeroClix World Championship Fellowship winner (uncredited on WK site)
"screw you!" factor, Ha! that made my day at work. Very true about hampering the teams with low mobility, but can't that be said about any map? If your team consists of mostly figures, you could face a tough time on several maps, including the junkyard.
On the Junkyard, a figure can get almost halfway across the map before being stopped by the hindering terrain. On the Anura Temple, they can get... six squares up, I believe. That's a pretty big difference.
Quote : Originally Posted by iceman243
And not that I expect anyone to build a team around a water-based special power in the finals (but would love to see GROOT!). But the big difference between Anura temple and the other two you mentioned is the way the water is spread out on the Anura Temple map. Bridge - you only have water on the edges. Asgard - water is only in the middle.
Very true, but on the other hand most water-based SPs don't need that much water to be effective. The Bridge or Fountain map should have more than enough water for Namor to use his Regeneration on, for instance.
On the Junkyard, a figure can get almost halfway across the map before being stopped by the hindering terrain. On the Anura Temple, they can get... six squares up, I believe. That's a pretty big difference.
Very true, but on the other hand most water-based SPs don't need that much water to be effective. The Bridge or Fountain map should have more than enough water for Namor to use his Regeneration on, for instance.
Aquaman's place power in water terrain
Attuma's quake
Throg's alligator SP
Just off the top of my head.
In fact these figures would greatly benefit from the BPRD map. As opposed to the bridge or the fountain.
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Aquaman's place power in water terrain
Attuma's quake
Throg's alligator SP
Just off the top of my head.
In fact these figures would greatly benefit from the BPRD map. As opposed to the bridge or the fountain.
There's also Triton's Aquatic Ambush SP. Attuma is doubtful though since his Tidal Wave only affects those adjacent to but not occupying water terrain - on the Anura temple most of the battle would probably be in the water.
Either way, Namor is the only one who might show up on a competitive team.
There's also Triton's Aquatic Ambush SP. Attuma is doubtful though since his Tidal Wave only affects those adjacent to but not occupying water terrain - on the Anura temple most of the battle would probably be in the water.
Either way, Namor is the only one who might show up on a competitive team.
Without the BPRD map, why would you bother to make an Atlantis/water character theme team? Unless you can force your opponent to cross the water (and no other map can), then your going to likely lose.
Swimmers have always gotten shafted.
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Without the BPRD map, why would you bother to make an Atlantis/water character theme team?
As someone said: If a big part of your strategy is dependent on getting the right map, odds are good that your team is not very competitive.
You could still do an Atlantis team for fun though. Remember, this list is for World's only.