But you can if you have sharp shooter?

Yes, you can.

Yes, but only if the target(s) of the grenade attack are adjacent.

All the targets, or just at least one?

I know [I know] it's a function of the rules.... but I feel pretty strongly that these stealth-ignoring damage-by-proxy attacks [grenades and, to a lesser extent, TKing an object into a square] should, through some exception in the wording, ignore Shape Change.

I know it won't, I understand why it won't, and I can even agree that making my wish so would be an unnecessary complication unwanted in a game full of necessary complications, but, man, there's just some points where the suspension if disbelief becomes hard to maintain.

That's all. Just wanted to gripe about that.

All the targets. The PG clarification for sharpshooter makes it clear that the only legal targets are characters that are adjacent to the sharpshooter.

Wouldn't this fall under effects like Energy Explosion and Pulse Wave? The effects are remarkably similar, it seems.

No. Because the Grenades target.

Aha, perhaps there's my problem... Why wouldn't they have worded this such that you make an attack roll and compare the result to characters in and adjacent to the destination square? Those hit are hit. Seems that would have had a far more 'logical' resolution to the attack process.

Ah, well, such is life.

Well, that is what happens: just one attack roll compared to all characters in/adjacent to the chosen square. It just so happens that this ranged combat attack also targets the characters in/adjacent to the chosen square.

In other words, it IS very similar to EE, but in a couple respects there are some very important differences.

No, I know. It's just that [as with all things in this game] the addition of the word 'targets' brings with it all these wrinkles and complications. Like the entirely accurate [I'm sure] thing about sharpshooter above, despite how silly [really] the end result of that is.

Had it been worded as I suggested, I don't know if there'd be this many questions. Well, no, I'm sure there'd be just as many questions, really. Also, it would have prevented the use of ESD, which I feel you should be able to use against a grenade. Agh, see, once you start down the 'logical' angle, it's a quagmire real quick.

So if even one of the 8 total targets roll successfully for Shape Change or Skrulls, then you can't make that attack at all?


...because that will suck major donkey balls.

ES/D works against any ranged combat attack.

Energy Shield/Deflection
Modify this character's defense value by +2 against ranged combat attacks.

The word "target" does not matter for ES/D. As long as it is a ranged combat attack, ES/D will kick in. This is why ES/D will work against EE (even the splash part) because ES/D is not target or LOF dependent.

All Shape Change does is prevent you from attacking that character. There is no reason one Shape Change roll would prevent an entire multi-character attack. See Quake for past precedent.

In other words, unless all targets successfull roll Shape Change, there is absolutely no reason the action wouldn't progress normally. You may not be able to attack a character or two, but you can still get the rest.

Commence hair-spitting: It's really not a ranged combat attack, though. It's more of a close combat attack you can do from a distance. Especially since these grenades seem to have a pretty limited shrapnel discharge radius or whatever. But in the end, you're pointing out exactly what I meant earlier; tweaking a rule to account for "logic" [making it so Shape Change wouldn't trigger] would in itself end up causing more stupid problems [you can't very well not call it an attack, as that would cause even more weird bubbles with other interactions].

I still think this would have been the superior way of wording it:

Throw a Grenade: Give the character a power action, if greater then 0, decrease the number of grenades in your grenade pool by 1, and choose a type of grenade listed on this card. Choose a target square within 5 squares and line of fire (ignoring characters for line of fire purposes). Make an attack roll and compare the result to the defense values of all characters occupying or adjacent to the target square. Deal damage to each character against whom the attack roll is successful based only on the type of grenade chosen.

I can't really see how that's not more clear, and more successful in regards to the 'reality' of a grenade.

It is a ranged combat attack. There is zero wiggle room here:

Throw a Grenade: Give the character a power action, decrease the number of grenades in your grenade pool by 1 (if greater then 0), and choose a type of grenade listed on this card. Choose a targer square within 5 squares and line of fire (ignoring characters for line of fire purposes). Make a ranged combat attack targeting all characters occupying or adjacent to the target square. Deal damage to each character hit based only on the type of grenade chosen.