Outwit does have a range. The range is 10 and needs to establish line of sight.

With the number of perplexers joining the fray in the next set, and the number of complainers complaining about this, I would think the outwitters would be too busy outwitting the perplexers to bother with invulnerability.

Message to all that want to change outwit: STOP! Do not heap more rules on an easy to learn system. The more rules and errata a game has the less fun it will be to play the game. Adapt a strategy to defeat outwit, perplex, and Firelord.
All we need is to have a hardcover, 200+ page rulebook being poured over by rules lawyers every time somebody tries to move from one end of the map to the other.

Does anyone else think that the people who are whining about the rules, and are almost always wrong about the rules about which they are whining, should just take up "Go Fish" or "Connect Four" as a hobby?

"What I've used in the past is reducing the effectiveness of Outwit against the defensive powers Invulnerability/Impervious, because that what unbalances the game most, hosing the expensive figures. If you Outwit Toughness, it goes completely. If you Outwit Invulnerability, it's reduced to Toughness. If you Outwit Impervious then it's reduced to Invulnerability. That way, you need three outwitters to make Superman helpless and that gives him a fighting chance against his enemies."

WTF? How is it that a flier who ignores terrain, possesses Hyper speed, and has Super Strength with what 10 clicks of life, needs any more of a chance against his enemies. This is the whole reason for Outwit. If you pick OWAW, I'd like to have at least some chance of winning the game without having to play with Hulk/Thing/Doomsday etc. It's a strategic power, designed to give everyone a chance to win. If you build your winning strategy against one inhumanly powerful character, then you run the risk of someone negating that character's power. If you don't have a backup plan other than "Superman will fly around the map and kill everything he sees" then you deserve to lose to a team of Outwitters. I'm so tired of hearing people whine about their favorite beatstick character getting taken out, because surely nobody can stop Juggy or Hulk except in thunderous hand-to-hand gladiator combat. I for one prefer to field characters who happen to usually do 2 damage or less but have a nice mix of powers, so should I just be S.O.L.?

I think Invulnerability and Toughness needs to be changed as well. I believe that 1d6 should be rolled before the power is used, on a result of 1-4 it works on a result of 5-6 it backfires and delivers 1 click of damage to the character. This would represent the stupidity of trying to change the game to suit your personal needs.

Leave Outwit alone!
Leave Perplex alone!
And leave the rest of the rules alone!
If it isn't BORKEN, don't FEX it!

Beware...there have been some not nice responses to people against outwit in it's current form.

Let's give Outwit the shapechange power or the skrull team ability and then we can change it whenever it pleases us.

Haven't you made your point enough? You're trying to be funny. We get it. Now play nice with others.

I won't respond to that.

You just did...

how bout we beat the snot outta the guys with outwit so they dont have it anymore

That was just witless.

But, if you were talking about giving damage clix to figures with outwit to remove outwit or the outwitting figure from the game, I'm all for it! That is the solution to this problem.

Because if you change outwit then I propose we change invulnerability and toughness. I say that it is too much a defensive power. If an attack is successful then it should do at least one damage. Otherwise all of my 1 damage figures would be useless in a game.

What do you think?

See, this is a really bad idea to start changing powers and rules to suit your needs. Change your tactics. Not every HULK SMASH strategy will work. Sometimes it is better to outsmart than out pound your opponent.

On the orgional 4 ideas to vote for I choose #1. Its the easiest to implement-is as effective a "cost" to the user no matter what the point-level of the teams and makes R Black Panther a little more costly to play (that was for you Pilkington) but actually leaves the rules as-is (as-are?) intact but turns it into a SHIELD-team type usage.

If some one outwits a power, just moved out of range, or place another figure in the LOS and the power will be back.
Outwit needs LOS. If the character with out wit loses LOS on the character he is using it against, the power is reactivated.

I don't really see any problem at all with outwit as it currently is....It does give teams that aren't full of huge bruisers like supes, Hulk, Thor and others a chance to win.....In the comics characters generally win battles/altercations, etc. by either using their sheer power, or..............................By using their superior intelligence to OUTWIT their more powerful opponent....It is a more strategic power than most in the game, and must be used as such.....And it's not as if outwit is that excessively difficult to defeat.....I've defeated teams with three or four outwitters in them when I have only had one or two, based on a little mind control and a few well placed barriers.....No matter what power is out there, people will find a way to use it to thier advantage, and their opponent's disadvantage.....This is the point of STRATEGY.....Teams are not meant to be perfectly balanced.....Very few battles in the comics are perfectly balanced.....By restricting outwit, that will give characters with damage reduction powers like invuln free reign over all characters that deal less than three damage......Personally, I like using less powerful figs, but there would be no point without outwit since they would be unable to deal any damage.....I have played MTG for years, and have just been getting into Heroclix over the past six or seven months...I find the rules are well balanced to allow various strategies and counterstrategies a significant chance to win against each other....And I find it amusing that you all are complaining about a power like outwit.....You should come and play Magic for a while, and see how you like being slaughtered in the first three(or two, or one) turns of playing, if you cannot be competitive........

Arkangel,

could you post a copy of this in the Let's fix this game thread? I think that it needs to be read there.