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It's getting to the point at my venue where people are saying "He has this that and the other feat and I play Battlefield X. And they are having the cards.
I've been lax and I think I'm going to have to start enforcing it.
With P&P, there's no reason not to have the cards. I'm willing to print them off for them (just shuffle me a fig here or there, or give me a good trade in my favour
Which is why I despise print and play. When I was judging at my venue I required these stipulations:
1) The card must be in color.
2) The card must be the same size as the original card, and must be cut out.
3) The card cannot be torn, ripped, etc. It must look exactly like the original card.
4) You need 1 card for each character it is assigned to. Using two Protected cards on two figures? You need two copies of the card.
I can appreciate the desire for a clean looking game. But really? You'd have a problem if someone printed the cards large enough so that they could more easily read them??
If so, thank God you aren't a judge any longer....
I can appreciate the desire for a clean looking game. But really? You'd have a problem if someone printed the cards large enough so that they could more easily read them??
It boils down to my philosophy: You give some an inch, they'll attempt to take a mile. I don't give people an inch to begin with.
And your example of someone not being able to see the card? That is what glasses or contacts are for. Or bring a magnifying glass.
The same argument has been used for color-blind people, that since they are color blind, we must make some kind of concession for them, and that they should be allowed handouts of each dial with the powers. This argument has been brought up on the Realms before.
Sorry, I believe in military-style uniformity. If someone can't cut it, they don't need to show up at the venue.
I read the rules. I understand your point. I just think you are being a dick about it as a judge.
If you are going to play a large special event. A clix for the cure, a game at a convention, ect I am 100% in the mindset of print out all your cards and cut them out. Prepare your stuff so it can be ready for when you need it at the big game.
But for local weekly game that ruling is crazy. Yeah you would have your core group of guys who come every week but how do you expect to get anyone new to the game? Being welcoming to new players is very important. We want new people to come in and buy product from the venue. If I went to an event and had all the cards I were to use printed in 1 sheet of paper but I was missing a duplicate of a few cards and was told that I couldn't use the cards in the manner you have been speaking in I would leave. It isn't worth my time to put up with that kind of bs.
Worthy of Mjolnir:
Kingpin Captain Mar-Vell Arcade Rocket Raccoon Kang
Probably because he despises print and play so much he has in a way forced his perception of how the game should be played onto his players. If you make the stipulations hard enough to follow then the players won't be encouraged to use print and play as an element at the venue. Thus allowing the people who felt they were cheated out of their actual hard won and pulled cards to use them over the other players who'd print them out.
I can't for the life of me see ANY point for any of those rules except the official rule of one card per character.
As you have pointed out, there are reasons people would print larger, or in Black and White (since you know color is kind of expensive).
90% agreed. I equally don't get the need for more than onecard ever.
When I field 3 Amazons - I bring 1 card. If I assign lunge on two figures, I bring 1 card.
It's for informational purposes only, so I can't see a reason to need more clutter on the table.
Visible Dials and Pushing Damage need to be optional. This is the way.
90% agreed. I equally don't get the need for more than onecard ever.
When I field 3 Amazons - I bring 1 card. If I assign lunge on two figures, I bring 1 card.
It's for informational purposes only, so I can't see a reason to need more clutter on the table.
Oh I am 100% behind this as well. I allowed it at my venues as long as you made quite clear on the point sheet that each character has the feat.
I can just see people enforcing that rule because it is in the rulebook, that's all.
I'm going to hit him really, really hard with a big green boxing glove............ I'm kidding. - Hal Jordan
And your example of someone not being able to see the card? That is what glasses or contacts are for. Or bring a magnifying glass.
Sorry, I believe in military-style uniformity. If someone can't cut it, they don't need to show up at the venue.
I understand your desire for consistency, but I don't understand the reasoning behind disallowing a larger, or non-colored, PnP element. Requiring an actual copy of the card (as in a printed copy, not just index cards or w/e)? Yes. Requiring cards to be pulled out of a binder (even if said binder is organized)? Absolutely. Requiring multiple copies for multiple Protecteds, dupe characters, etc.? Sure, though that's a bit on the anal side. Requiring cards to be colored and the same size as the originals? Not really. What harm is done here?
Last edited by dontcare; 04/09/2012 at 00:30..
Reason: clarity
I understand your desire for consistency, but I don't understand the reasoning behind disallowing a larger, or non-colored, PnP element. Requiring an actual copy of the card (as in a printed copy, not just index cards or w/e)? Yes. Requiring cards to be pulled out of a binder (even if said binder is organized)? Absolutely. Requiring multiple copies for multiple Protecteds, dupe characters, etc.? Sure, though that's a bit on the anal side. Requiring cards to be colored and the same size as the originals? Not really. What harm is done here?
It's not even worth arguing with him... 1) the venue he plays at does not have any such House Rules. 2) he is not a volunteer anywhere.
So he is stating his opinion for the purpose of getting attention.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
The last couple of games I've been to have been Golden Age games. And each time, I played someone who was taking advantage of the print and play rules to add feats to his team that he didn't actually own. That's all well and good.
But... they didn't have the feats cut out as individual items. Instead, they had reams of paper with all the different feats that exist printed out. For example, one guy had written down that the feats on one character were Protected, Spotter, Shellhead, and maybe some others. But he didn't have the feats on hand; instead, he had a folder with every feat printed out. So, one page might have Shellhead and 8 other feats, another page might have Spotter and eight other feats on it, etc. So, there was never a time when any of these feats were simply laying on the table, so if I needed to know how a feat worked (the only one I was fuzzy about was Spotter), it would take about ten minutes to sort through all these pages with feats on them (not alphabetized of course), in order to find out how this one feat worked.
The other guy was similar except his feat pages weren't organized even as well as the first guy (whose feats at least in a binder with the pages having holes punched in them).
Is this okay? Is this legal? Is this how tournaments should work? Is it just a matter of local judges having to make decisions about this sort of thing? Or is this something that is specifically already allowed/disallowed in the current version of the rules? And if it is currently allowed, may I humbly suggest that maybe it be disallowed in a future version of the rules?
For more fun info: the first guy actually put Spotter on a character who didn't meet the prereqs, so he never got to use it, which just goes to show that people who don't have the feats in front of them are (problematically) unsure how they work. The second guy had scribbled down the initials of the feats he was using, so when I asked him what M.S. and E.S. were, he wasn't sure, and he even called "E.S." Energy Shield by mistake... I was pretty sure there wasn't a feat called Energy Shield. It turns out they were Mental Shields and Elite Sniper.
I would say bring along a pair of scissors next time and have them cut out each of the feats from the 'reams of paper' so they could at least place it next to the character cards of the fig(s) it is assigned to. Or even just in front of them as an immediate reminder. It is what I did for the ATAs to help remind me. They have already printed them out so what is an extra 60 seconds to save 10 minutes, right?