ah yes. mr high and mighty voices his opinion. i forgot only your opinions matter. forgive me for voicing mine

I can't speak for thanosstar, but for me it's the "reasonably expected" part. As has been shown in the thread, that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

biggest problem i have is when peeps just barrier up. not anything against that tactic but i noticed at high level events at gencon that when that is their only option it seems to somehow take 3 plus minutes to do it. turtling is just an excuse to stall out.

What you described is called turtling. Stalling is a completely different thing. Turtling is not cheating. Stalling is.

im fine with turtle strategies if they don't sit there acting like they are wondering what to do. put your barrier up, or move your full move away, but it better take 30 seconds not 3 minutes.

As far as the OP - i played at your venue. everyone seems reasonable. have the judge institute turn time limits. 1.5 minutes or so a turn. players are responsible to keep the time. if a player is not following the turn limit rule, they get a warning, 2nd time is a dq.

so.......taking 3 plus minutes when ur only option is to clear or barrier..thats not stalling?? or heck in on case even way longer. huh. i though we were suppose to play the game. my bad

i think that would be considered stalling though. if someone was doing that i would call a judge over.

I'm not disputing that there is vagueness to what is reasonably expected. (Note: I'm well aware of thanosstar's beliefs. I'm not going to go into that in this response. Suffice it to say that his sentiments do not stem from that.)

As you are no doubt aware, there is an army sheet distributed for most events at GenCon. (I think that the only events not receiving one are the BRs and possibly KotHs.) In case you are not, or for others reading the thread, I'll also point out that on the back of this sheet is a list of rules, facts, and guidelines for the events at the convention. This is supplemental to the basic rules and is there to let players know exactly what to expect during the events. When you fill out your army sheet, you also read and sign the list on the back to acknowledge your understanding of the list.

In addition to the items I quoted above, there is another key section.
I've highlighted the key point for this thread's discussion.

Basically, if you are at an event at one of the cons and feel that your opponent is taking an unreasonable time, then you must make this feeling known to a judge. If you do not, then nothing will be done.

If you do make your feelings known, of course, there is no guarantee that the judge will agree. The judge will observe the match and make sure that both parties are taking their turns in what that judge deems to be a reasonable amount of time.

As shown in this thread, there is no way to set in stone that X amount of time is the end-all-be-all reasonable time across the board. That is why there is a judge...to determine for that particular circumstance what is a reasonable amount of time.

Well if they're taking over 3 minutes to do something, then that could be a case for stalling. Just placing up barriers or running away isn't stalling though.

Sometimes to use barrier effectively, if its new to you, it can take a while to see the best place to lay down some walls.

dont get me started on that.....

No need...it's already finished.

i know it takes time for a important move to be made. but when you have all your characters that are double token and you have only one character you can use it shouldn't take a couple of minutes to move or clear. at the venue i play you go until you have ko the other person team, so Stalling is not a issue. the only thing you can do is have your judge talk to everyone and explain if plan to stall you can get DQ. to me stalling is not playing and not a tactic. just shows me you have no skill and don't want to come out play. i understand that there are slower thinkers out there and i don't have a problem with it but a vet player can tell when a person is Stalling. the only thing that gets me in these tournment unless it constuct the most characters you have on your team at max is about 4 unless you got the worst booster of your life then i see more or you venue is playing to high point values. don't happen that much. but seen it. I feel there should be a legal rule put in the rule book. just my opinion.

I think there is an assumption inherent in this that all players have the same capabilities. It would be great if all players could do this, but I don't think all players can. They struggle with rules, options, and placement more than others.

Let me give you an example. I used to have a player that was great at team building. He knew the rules very well and would bring the meanest looking teams. He would talk about what the team would do before the tournament started. They were good teams and he knew how to use them.

However, he was a terrible player. He was never good at placement. If his opponent did something unexpected (which was often), he could never adapt. Regardless how good his team was, and he would have what many would consider being cheesy teams, he rarely won. Nobody really cared what his team consisted of because they knew they could beat him.

This player had been playing for a long time and just never seemed to improve. He wasn't a slow player, but he probably would have benefited from being a slower player. I don't know what it was, but something was stopping him from being a better player.

I don't know if he was capable of being a better player. In fact, I suspect that part of his problem was that he was planning his move during his opponents turn; he knew exactly what he wanted his team to do. However, he wasn't adapting to his opponents actions and was easily out positioned. He would have been better off not planning his moves ahead of time and really considering what his opponent did.

That's what takes determining stalling so difficult. It really depends on the individual. There will never been one solution that will always fit. The best solution is to talk to your judge as soon as you think your opponent could be stalling.

oh no. not even close