I've never liked Cyclops. So AvX didn't change anything there. And I don't think he was "right", either. He may have had good intentions, but he was willing to risk the entire planet on his idea Hope could control a cosmic force that was destroying every planet in its path on its way to Earth.

'Cause the vastness of space isn't large enough for a giant space bird to maneuver around worlds, apparently.

Also, did Cyclops or Hope bother to ask the opinion of any of the people they empowered (repowered?) before they did it? Maybe some of those people were happy as they were. In which case, what gave Cyclops and/or Hope the right to make that sort of decision about their lives?

What in the blue earth does this have to do with the discussion at hand???

...getting back to Cyclops.

Honestly, the character has always had potential to be something decent. The problem is, his characteristics and dialogue and just overall functional existence has been 70% cheese, 25% emo, and 5% actual contribution to something useful. No one seems to have ever been able to get Scott in the right direction and development.

AvX as a whole did as much for me as Fear Itself, Secret Invasion, and pretty much everything not in space since Civil War. There's tonnes of build up and then the actual story leaves me going..."meh." I'm not trying to rag on Marvel (I'm not a DC fanboy either), just maybe my tastes have changed or something because I feel like the writers are grasping in general these days.

Sorry for the tangent.

This pretty much sums it up for me.

Eminem? The guy that beat his wife and wrote a song about it? Yeah, he could be the biggest Cyclops fan on the planet, and I'd still want nothing to do with him.

Not even to smack him around ???

Sounds like a Hank Pym fan (Do those exist? )

I am not a Pym fan, but I do have to point out he's not the only superhero who has ever smacked his girlfriend/wife.
He's just such a bad character that his smacking his wife is the only thing he'll really be remembered for.

I am a big Scott Summers fan, and think he got the shaft.

He really did nothing wrong (he violated international law, arguably, but . . .) until after there were only 2 Phoenixes. Namor is solely responsible for the destruction of Wakanda.

Scott killed one person. He acted in self defense. Xavier was trying to shut his mind down. Scott only attacked K'un L'un to get Hope back. Lots of destruction of property in that fight, but no evidence of civilians hurt. Xavier and the Avengers invade his home and threaten his life - or at least his mind - he defends himself and someone dies.

Anything he really did bad he was possessed by Dark Phoenix.

He totally got a raw deal.

Sorry if this rambles, I've been typing this between teaching classes over the last 5 periods.

They actually had Cyclops kill Professor X? This is why I don't waste my money on Marvel Comics anymore.

Part of me agreed with Cyclops and part of me disagreed.
He was both wrong and right in his actions, (just as Captain America and the Avengers were wrong and right with theirs).

Scott should NEVER have forced this position on Hope when she did not want it. He should NEVER have played Russian Roulette with Earth not knowing the outcome over what was going to happen. He should have dropped the Us vs Them attitude (since mutants are still humans).

At the same time, he had to make a call on those he was leading. He had to make sure they were safe and that they wouldn't become extinct. He also made a call on how to handle a Phoenix entity heading straight toward Earth.

The Avengers, and especially Cap should NOT have arrived at the X-Men island headquarters with an army cloaked in a ship, that was a threat and not a good way to offer an olive branch and work together.

Tony splitting the Phoenix was what caused the Phoenix 5 to get possessed in the first place. I have a hard time blaming Cyclops for his actions when we KNOW what Phoenix can do to its hosts.
Cap and almost EVERYONE on the X-Men AND Avengers KNOWS what it is like to be mind controlled and do things they did not want to do (WOLVERINE ESPECIALLY since that ENEMY of the STATE storyline). So to see them treating Scott like crap in the end (especially Steve Rogers) did not sit well with me.
I mean, they have NO PROBLEM letting Wanda hang around after all the things she did and the friends she KILLED.........WTH?!?!
That's not to say Cyclops shouldn't be held accountable for his actions leading up to his possession, I mean that IS the reason everything else unfolded the way it had.

However, the kicker is, I don't think Hope would have learned what was necessary and make the ultimate decision if she DID NOT experience these events in the way they played out. She HAD to see all this, Had to be on the run, Had to hide with the Avengers, Had to meet Wanda, Had to see the Phoenix 5 and how the power corrupts in order to make the decision of doing what she had to do with the Phoenix........


Stories like this are great for discussion because of all the different opinions and views of the readers. In the end I was more in support of the Avengers throughout the story, but I understood Scott's position.

Cyclops was a joke, the X-boyscout, until Morrion's New X-Men started his character development, Whedon made him a true leader, and Fraction made him a badass.

Now he's one of my favorite characters in all of comics.

Cyclops was right.

this even though I think Scott is changing I like the way he was thinking
It's great character development. Him killing prof x had to show how far he would go and basically stamp evil on his head when he felt misunderstood
What I'm getting from everyone's post is
Cyclops was right

Cyclops has always been pretty much my favorite X-Man. I think his characterization in this AvX think has been pretty poor, but I can't deny they've been building up to it with his increasing militancy.

But I think said militance is wrongheaded. I mean, sure, mutants were decimated to a mere 1,998 (extra digit intentional, 'cause otherwise the math doesn't work ) so I can't blame him for going into survival mode. The thing is, the X-Men shouldn't be accommodating their opponents' premise that mutants and humans are separate species, and that's what the past several years of X-stories (and Cyke's separatist approach in particular) have been doing.

I didn't read enough of AvX to really come down on one side or the other, but I disliked Scott being played as the villain.

It's funny, I pretty much hated Cyclops up until the Morrison run, then between New X-Men and Astonishing I came to understand, appreciate, and even like the character. That lasted until Schism, when it hit me that somewhere along the lines Cyclops abandoned Xavier's dream and began acting much more like Magneto would. Whether that's genuine character growth or ham-fisted writing wanting to paint him in as the bad guy, I couldn't say, but it turned me off the character again.

In the strictest sense of the term, yes, Cyclops was right. But when you're a hero, the ends shouldn't justify the means. Gambling that big with forces beyond your control, relying on a reluctant teenager to magically be the Mutant Messiah, and being that much of an arrogant prick when the Avengers finally showed a more than token interest in mutant affairs could've, and rightfully should've, blown up in his face. And I don't see any of that, whether excused by the 198 situation or by possession, matches up with a character that pretty much grew up entrenched in Xavier's ambitions of mutant-human harmony.

Not that the characterization of anyone else was any better, really. The Captain America I know would know better than to approach a man with a well-earned martyr complex in such a belligerent, combative way. Cable, in the prequel mini whose name escapes me at the moment, was almost as bad. "Gee, the Avengers are gonna take out my adopted daughter and destroy the world! Should I go back and warn them? Should I warn Hope? The X-Men? Nah, I'll just go back, try and take 'em out all by my disease-ridden, dying self, and hand them the means to destroy the world on a silver platter instead!"

Why is it that every major crossover forgets that these are characters with real history and personalities, and that instead of changing their personalities to fit the half-cocked idea you have, maybe you should let their personalities determine how they act instead? The characters are more important than your big ideas, folks. They've been around longer, and unless they continue to get screwed up over and over, will be around longer than anyone currently writing them.

Let me tell you something... AvX was one of the worst written storyies by Marvel and was an epic fail.

I don't know what do you think guys but a story whith a couple of pages where everybody pretends to fight and nothing really happened is just stupid to me.

First thing first at the start Cyclops was right (and to me even in the end, note that I hated Cyclops before AvX) the Phoenix was there not for what the Avengers thinked. What happened was all caused by the Avengers (if you try to defend the Avengers probably you haven't read the comics).
From the start there were a lot of storytelling errors and other stupid stuff that made AvX worse and worse.

1) Hope escapes to team up with the only one who wants to kill her... Wolverine who has just betrayed the Avengers but about 2 pages later he teams up with them again.
2) Cyclops and the rest of the phoenix five just created a better world with no more starving people, energy for everyone etc. AND TO REMEMBER they captured and secluded opposing Avengers in Utopia because the Avengers were continuosly treatening the five (because it is the thing you do to the ones who have created the perfect world right?). Even Beast retreated from the Avengers because they had no proof of supposed Phoenix evil within the 5. But the Avengers insisted and all nations were against them in the end (yes even if they make you believe that the avengers were the good guys they weren't).
BUT naturally the great Marvel writers have to make the stupidest thing they could. Someone walked in the room and said: "Guys what have you done? Captain America (which is the stupidest Marvel character to me) is on the wrong side and we can't make a guy dressed with America's stars and stripes be wrong! Make the X-Men wrong"
and THEN it just happened. Immediately after with no reason because the Avengers must be right the Phoenix 5 are all about I'm going to kill everyone or I put every avenger locked in utopia in a gigantic demonic mountain and let the demons feast on their soul. Just Crap. And to remember this happened out of nowhere with no reason or logic because the 5 were good immedialtely before
3) Captain America who is still hunted by all the world who says to Cyclops (long before he kills Xavier):" You are under arrest for crimes against humanity". Oh my, I laughed so much at that. You are arresting him for what? The fun fact was that Cyclops was the only one of the 5 not gone crazy by the time and Cyke hadn't done nothing wrong.
4) The battles, please Marvel do something about them in the future because I can't no more see battles like this were everybody is punching at somebody and nothing is happening. There are lot of guys in the fight (all the Avengers always win and that is annoying as hell) and always nothing happens. If you make somebody fight each other the battle has to be more brutal.
5) SCARLET WITCH. How I hate her, seriously I just can't see her after all the VIP treatment that she receives. In AvX they remembered what she has done in about 2 pages where Hope exchanges punches with her and she is one of the things that makes the Avengers even worse, let me explain: The avengers continuosly battle against enemies but always are untouchables when they are wrong. Months ago Osborn escaped prison in his miniseries titled Osborn. He escaped prison because they locked him in a super secret facility underwater for the rest of his life but with no trial. So he escaped and in that miniseries he turned himself over to the autorithies because he wanted a trial. After that he reappears in that horrible storyline where he re-creates the Dark Avengers. In there they forgot that he turned himself to have a trial and he is just escaped. Now, because of the siege of asgard even if he hasn't got any trial he is automatically evil, because he is Norman Osborn, he is the Goblin and he is mentally ill, everyone forgets that he helped save the world against the Skrull invasion and that he and the T-Bolts saved Washington DC all by themselves, but you know he is EVIL even if he got any trial and therefore he has still to be judged but we are the Avengers he IS EVIL so we have to arrest him. Same thing with Cyclops in AvX you have created the perfect world etc etc but you have a part of the Phoenix Force so you are EVIL and we have to arrest you for crimes against humanity that you haven't done yet. And finally to Scarlet Witch... Since she's back she is like I know what I've done, I'll have to live with it for the rest of my life and if you have readen Uncanny Avengers when she spoke with Rogue she added something like I'm tired of everyone pointing that out to me (and I have seen 2 characters do that: Hope and Rogue). Avengers what the f**k are you doing? She is a criminal damn. She annihilated the entire Mutant race causing a lot of deaths in the process (because not every mutant without their powers could live) and you stupid avengers don't say nothing to her because she was one of your own. She wen't crazy but nobody is going to say "you are under arrest for crimes against humanity" to her. She has to be put in jail for the rest of her life after a trial, what the **** are you doing Marvel? And everyone does nothing against her. The Avengers do nothing to turn Osborn a real Avenger after he saved the word and even if he went to jail the government tried to shut him up forever without trial (and surely Osborn has tried to protect America even if in his own way) and instead they are all like "Welcome back Scarlet we missed you, nobody cares you are a mass murderer second only to Hitler"
6) And last after AvX Cap wants the Avengers to join forces with X-Men because he let the mutants be alone for too much time when they had to be protected and stuff. And still there is Scarlet Witch stooooop you can't team-up the X-Men with the crazy girl who killed their species please Marvel stop this please really there is a limit to stupid things and you have surpassed it long time ago.