What is it with you and subtle puns?

Yeah, it is. HSS and such are one thing. Falcon and pals are something else. Apples and oranges.

Hence the need for a special ruling to get the effect GD wanted. And the reason why I said it would be very easy to argue to the contrary without said ruling.

Not even close. Charge is definitely not HSS. Even without the ruling in the PG for Fly-By (and they didn't have to break away), they aren't the same.

Not at all. Or do you require characters that can use the Flight ability to roll break away if they move past a normal character? That situation is actually more like the HSS situation than Fly-By (since a character using HSS and a character simply moving with Flight both never actually stop moving).

I'm having similar trouble with this as Bluelantern so help me wrap my head around this one. The basic idea here is that characters with hypersonic, when using hypersonic, do not actually 'stop' moving while the make their attack. (if they did stop moving, like characters with Fly-By, they would have to roll breakaway from a cruiser with a qualified pilot-at least thats how I see it) But when they do use hypersonic they still have to pick a square to attack from, and it must me one they could legally occupy, then they may continue their movement, only getting 'stuck' there if they crit miss/hit a mystic and lose hypersonic speed.
Do flyers ignore the cruiser's pilot ability too while moving? what about character with improved movement that ignore character bases? Characters using Phasing? I suspect they don't. So what makes Hypersonic different?

Correct.

Not really. Break away requires two things to happen: being adjacent to an opposing character *AND* being given an action that attempts to move the character.

Even if HSS 'stopped' you still would not be doing that second part (assign an action). There would be no break away roll.

The ONLY reason Fly-By requires a break away roll is because we are told so in the PG. Without that ruling, you could just as easily say there is no break away (since the normal conditions are not met). GD wanted a break away roll, though, so the clarification was added.

Right. Your character must be able to legally occupy the square it attacks from, just in case its HSS is terminated for some reason.

Well, let's quote the effect and see:

Cuffed to the Bumper
Prerequisites: Any character with "GCPD" or "Gordon" in its name.
GCPD Cruiser can use Plasticity; characters that can automatically break away or ignore characters for movement purposes do not automatically break away or ignore GCPD Cruiser for movement purposes.

So characters that can move around or through characters can still do so normally (IM: OO or IM: OO>). This is because those do not ignore anything at all; 'ignore' is a very specific term in HeroClix and these Improved Movements say nothing about ignore. A character using one of these IMs (say, a character using HSS or Flight), would still have to break away normally, but once it has actually begun moving it can move around/through the Crusier no problem.

Other effects, like Phasing/Teleport, that ignore characters for movement purposes do NOT get to ignore the Cuiser. They would stop when they move adjacent, just like any other character would.

Thanks, thats some solid answering there.

So If I've got this straight now,

I have my Flash and my Hawkman parked next to your Cruiser piloted by Gordon. I want to move Hawkman, so I have to roll breakaway as normal and break past Plasticity while I'm at it. He miraculously succeeds and is able to move away and even move alongside and past your second Cruiser piloted by a GCPD Detective because of the symbols that go along with improved movement. With Flash if I declare Hypersonic Speed, I have to roll breakaway; something I don't normally have to do with HS because it says "automatically breaks away" in the power description on the PAC and cuffed to the bumper specifically prohibits that. If Flash fails, he doesn't get to move and therefore he does not get to attack. But Cable+Deadpool phasing past have to stop because phasing says it ignores characters for movement rather than have the IM symbols. I don't have the rules in front of me at the moment so I can't verify that just now.


and just to get this off my chest, the advertised purpose behind the Improved Movement symbols was to clarify things and standardize the wordings of these powers. I feel like Bane from DKR is standing before me asking "Do you feel clarified?"

Like Butta?

Why don't you? I am genuinely curious.

Look for IM: OO or IM OO]>. They don't have to stop.

Anything else, must stop.

I fail to see how that isn't clear.

Now, since the attack happens "during the movement". Once they are next to the cruser, would the movement end, thus ending their chance to make the attack?

Did you not read the rest of normalviews posts after the one you quoted?

Its an historical perspective.
I've been a player since the beginning. If I recall L/C, Phasing, Flight, HS all used to work similarly with regards to other characters and movement. Now they don't; not normally an issue but with regards to the police cruiser special that rather marginal difference is a big deal. Perhaps its not the symbols that are the confusing part but the police cruiser special that mucks it all up.

Just realized with the new ("Running Man" OO) wording on HSS, it's not "Ignoring", it's "May move through squares adjacent to opposing characters but still needs to break away normally".

My mistake.

This isn't really true. It is more correct to say, "For quite some time now, they don't."

The wording for the current, Improved Movement-using Leap/Climb and Phasing/Teleport is identical to the wording on the 2011 PAC. The only difference is the words that said "ignore X" or "move through Y" have been changed to the appropriate IM icons.


I think the difference is that people just didn't really care that there was a difference between "ignore X" and "move through Y" before, even though that difference has been there for some time... for most game effects, the end result is largely identical. Now, however, we have a game effect where the distinction is important.

it's not the cruisers fault they didn't make themselves besides ultimate clayfaces sp is almost the same thing.

As Normalview has pointed out, the difference has been there for at least a couple years, if not longer. Its just that there hasn't been too many situations where it mattered until now.

I agree. Up until this thread, i didn't bother to look up the difference between ignores X/y and OO> because thinking like an old player - i thought they were the same thing.

But by looking closer at the PAC, there is a very clear distinction between them. and for good reason I guess.