This is what I don't get about that logic: what is it about outwitting someone that is easier to do when you're closer tothe other person? These are game mechanics, not the accuracy of gaming nomenclature.

Outwit works with Line of Fire and Stealth blocks that. Simple.

For funzies, have him describe to you exactly what it means, in the real world, to "outwit" someone. Go ahead. See what he can come up with. It isn't easy. If it helps, ask him to describe how you could outwit someone into losing their imperviousness, or their ability to be strong, or to be smart, or to be you know, like, a giant (as in the case of Mauls SP).

You could also point out that "Stealth" does not mean that the character is hiding behind something. Sometimes it takes the place of being microscopic, other times it's a stand in for invisibility. He really has to stop trying to make the game conform to his version of logic. It simply isn't helpful.

Riddle me this. Why?
You cant run 5 nightcrawlers, oh darn. I can only have multiples of generics, what, that`s crazy, it don`t make sense that i cant run 3 of the SAME wolverine, or only have one WoS bullseye on my team. You mean i have to make a team that can only consist of one particuler figure of its specific number in a set, well there goes my cheese. They have generics for a reason =/ Highlander is where it`s at. Kinda forces you to put some thought into your team..instead of running 5 CW:FF Scarlet Witch. Turns out more then just her have Tk, Prob, Perplex, etc etc...

I`m not hate`n specifically on venues that allow it, heck, sometimes id like to run multiples of the same fig, but it just takes away from the team aspect i feel and allows crap like a slew of Scarlet Witches. I just dont understand why make`n accurate rosters for teams is a pain =/

That aside. Water Terrain is hindering terrain for movement purposes, your judge is wrong. Tell him to invest in a PAC

There's a difference between highlander and cheese. A pretty sizable one, IMO...

And when comics start to use any form of highlander, then I'll be more ok with clix doing it. But when comics has innumerable stories of clones, otherworldly duplicates, otherdimensional duplicates, Skrulls, LMDs, time traveling future versions, illusionary duplicates, etc, then clix had better damn well never make that an official rule.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. Enforcing highlander for comic accuracy reasons is blatant hypocrisy.

The confusion ultimately lies with rules that overlap.

It would be very simple to fix this.

Just make water terrain its own separate entry in the rules. Don't take the lazy way of saying "water is hindering for movement purposes". Simply just restate those effects for water terrain. (Having to stop if entering water terrain, half movement if starting in water terrain etc.)

Then for all the abilities that ignore hindering (Flight, etc.) simply add the blue square to the PAC.

Personally, why exactly does Batman and company get to ignore water terrain for movement? Being acrobatic and even at peak human condition shouldn't let a person walk on water. (Of course there are plenty of fanboys who think otherwise)

Really the only characters that should be ignoring water terrain are those that have the dolphin symbol and flyers. Your standard L/C type characters have generally no business ignoring a body of water for moving.

Making water its own deal actually simplifies the rules because there is no sense of "see entry A for the solution to problem B". Add 2 lines to the rulebook, 1 blue square to the PAC and badabing, no more confusion!

I personally dislike Highlander because (1) the rules are either very complex or prevent perfectly reasonable teams and (2) they don't prevent cheese. And frankly in 10 years of HeroClix the vast majority of proponents are arguing "comic-accurate" teams, which is exclusionary. It amounts to "if you aren't going to play what I think is "right" and "fun", don't play."

So Batman's zipline/grapple gun can get him from the street to the roof without breaking stride, but for some reason can't move him over a river or stream? there aren't really any maps that could represent lakes or oceans and nerfing an entire class of characters for the 2 or 3 effects that can flood an entire map seems strange. I could see the logic of a caveat that prevented characters without the blue square from starting there movement in water but that's over complicating things.

There are plenty of comicbook logic(as stupid a phrase as that is) reasons for leap/climb or Improved Movement characters that ignore hindering to ignore both water and regular hindering, there are much fewer reason mechanically or logically to prevent that.

Rules of Highlander: There can be only one( One of any non-generic figure from a set on your team, unless otherwise stated, like madrox). Simple enough...i cant run 3 GSX cyclops on my team, mmmk. But I could run GSX cyclops, and Tabbapp cyclops, and M&M cyclops, since there not THE SAME FIGURE. This would allow you your clones, time travel thing or whatever, but you cant do it with the same piece from the same set.

That's an incomplete rule, because it doesn't define "non-generic" or tell us what the "otherwise stated" are.

So is there a list of what specific named characters can be run in multiples?
Any leeway for wanting to represent that there are several different people who went by a particular name but they may not have been made or I might not have the actual figures that represented the different figures?
And what about the venue that says no duplicates of a named figure, so your "GSX/TabbApp/M&M" Cyclops wouldn't be legal? There are venues that won't let you run multiples of a name when the figures clearly represent different characters, like Jay Garrick and Wally West Flash.
That's the other aspect that I dislike: there is no consistency or agreement on what Highlander actually means.
And last: what's the justification for your version? If I want to play multiples of figure X, why shouldn't I?

Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

I can understand why folks might BotO this would over complicate things, but I think it could be fun. I've been hankering for some good water maps for a while, and would like more game elements to highlight aquatic characters and give , a chance to shine.

Small edit there.
I've been an advocate for making Water distinct from Hindering with it's own rules for, well, about 10 years. But the impact of the change at this point in time would be pretty significant, as each character who had L/C, a special power or some other form of Improved Movement was reviewed to determine if that specific character should also ignore Water, and errata done accordingly. It's not nearly as simple as you've said.

Well the thing is, they don't HAVE to let Batman and his ilk ignore water terrain for movement. If they want to go back and add the blue square to certain characters, by all means.

Meh, if they are not the same person ( Wally West, Barry Allen ) then your good. Even if they were, and were from a different set each, your good. Bout as simple as it gets....If it troubles YOU so when this event is ran, pick that bone with your judge. The "Rules" are as always, up to your judge. However, the basis of Highlander is pretty simple, and not really a pain at all.

Actually, he just pointed out several ways in which it IS complicated.

My judge once ruled early in a tournament, 2 years ago, that leap/climb did not ignore water terrain. Ok, no big deal, it was the first round and there was only a little bit of water terrain on the map. My team had no fliers, and around half of them utilized leap/climb. I still won. Final round now, my opponent knows the ruling doesn't follow the rulebook and plays Atlantis Risisng BFC. He didn't play a BFC all tournament. At the time, my judge didn't require anyone to fill out a build sheet or anything like that. Needless to say, that guy walked away with the prize.