Also, since it's a BFC it's as if an opposing character has halved your range. It would happen after anything else you do. The person doing the action chooses the order of replacements, not the person being acted on. If that weren't true, you would be able to counter any time someone replaces one of your combat values.

He will pulse wave with a range of 5 (halved from the replaced 10 by the BFC), Then pulse wave halves it again to 3.

no it means all range values are halved, like all for each character. not you halve it and then halve it again. that would be quartering it.

shrink replaces your range value one time by cutting it in half.

undersea replaces your range value one time by flat out making it 10.

since they are both replacements (that occur one time), the active player (myself) chooses. i choose to have shrink cut my 4 into a 2, and then i choose to have undersea replace my 2 with a 10.

this is no different from people i have seen use running shot with a kinetic accelerator.

ex: my speed is a 10. I roll i 6 for the KA. The KA replaces your speed with your current speed + 6. You can choose to either make the 10 turn into a 16 from the KA and then cut it in half to an 8. Or you can choose to make RS cut it in half to a 5, and then apply the KA to make it an 11.

both effects happen, its just that the active player chooses the order. in the KA example it allows them to get an 11 speed RS instead of an 8 speed one. in this example, i can get a 10 range attack (which is THEN lowered to 5 from PWs AoE) instead of a 5 range one which would become a 3 for PW.

Melkhor! I summon thee!!!!

Prediction: I'm fairly certain Melk will say I'm right. Then I will PW and need a 7 with a reroll and get a 6. Then I will PC it into a crit miss.

Also, its not the person "doing the action" vs the person "being acted on", nor is a BFC treated like an opposing character that is doing anything.

The rule is the "active player", which is the person who's turn it is. Which currently is me.

I understand all that, but the KA is an effect you are controlling, the BFC is not.

If what you're saying is how it works, then Nerkkod is just ignoring the BFC while everyone else has to abide by it. And that's not how BFCs work.

Lets just make it easy and move Drac Back then as I am going to assume Dbauers is right (because that is what I figured anyway although did not know he could not escape other than TK) and I dotn wnat him to crit

This is just a consulted rule Clusterfrack

The BFC still works, its just that being able to control the order of effects ends up making it not matter.

Just like an Ultimates can still shoot a stealthy guy in Deep Shadows. The BFC still makes lof go thru hindering, but the TA makes it not matter. Just like Nerkkod possesses a power that makes the BFC not matter in this situation.

Heres another one:

Fimbulwinter makes me get a -1 def with 2 tokens. I have a guy with 2 tokens and he is Outsidered. The BFC is there, but doesn't matter right now. There are a lot of BFCs whos effects can be ignored with the right powers / tas / abilities

That is a BFC that modifies your values, and a TA that specifically works against modifiers. Outsiders is specifically designed to work against anything that modifies your values.

What we're dealing with here is completely different. It is an accidental crossover between two game effects that were never meant to be in the same game since BFCs were removed waaaaay before Nerkkod was designed.

Lol we've spent more time talking about this one game effect than actually playing the game...

I believe Dbauers is correct. He gets to choose between Shrunk and the SP for his attack.

There's 0 differential between BFC, powers, ownership of element, whatever. It doesn't matter where the values are coming from.

1 element says ranges are replaced with half. 1 element says it's replaced by 10. Dbauers gets to choose the order.

K, so from your post on the main thread.

Nerkkod can make a standard ranged attack with 10 range, but when he pulse waves since it gets its own range instead of a replacement value it is halved to 3.

So we both get to be right! Weeeeeeee! :D haha

yes. this bfc really bones PW-ers.

think about someone with 8 range PW but no "nerkkod" type shenanigans.

I have 8 range and want to PW. BFC makes it a 4. Then I check to see the AoE. It is half of the range so it becomes a 2. Then the BFC says that since AoE is a thing that has a range associated with it, it halves to a 1. Crazy.

Then Perplex that PWers range -1! Muahaha!