Honestly , I'm not seeing what the step forward was suppsoed to be.

I believe he was suggesting that the dials on the cards was a step forward. I see it as neutral myself.

Well, let's see...

Looking up dials during the game is cheating, regardless of how a player does so. You're not allowed to use electronic devices during the game, so you can't use a phone or tablet to do so. The rules also indicate that what's showing on dials is public information, and they're not to be clicked unless a game effect dictates that they're clicked. If it's not showing on the dial or a card, it's not public info and you're not entitled to it. The new cards come with the additional limitation that you can't look at the backs of your opponent's cards. It isn't complex.

As far as the new cards, I don't like them. In part, they're hideous. They make my eyes hurt. Aside, they complicate the matter of cheating, in that they make it very easy for a player to do so in several ways. Anything that makes cheating easier is a nogo in my book. Though it's also not a secret that my views on cheating filth what to do with/to them are quite extreme.

If you happen to have the same figure as your opponent (more likely in the competitive end anyway) then you're looking at your card, not theirs. They may be identical, but you're allowed to look at yours and not theirs. You both have the same advantage on this one.

I honestly can't see WK allowing players to reference dial info during the game by any method other than the new card. The card sort of undermines the game by itself anyway though, so I suppose anything's possible.

Personally I am too old school to like the dials on the cards.

However, I dont think that violates the spirit of the rule. The spirit seems to be to know everything about your dial which by inheritance includes knowing everything about an opposing matching dial.

Where I think WK went off the rails was in misunderstanding the value of having the dial on the back of the card. The value IMO is to give the judge/play-group the option to define their own style of play. That is use the group should be able to view the dial on card (common knowledge for both players) or dont view the dial on card (hidden knowledge requiring sleeves) at their discretion.

There's fourth option you didn't mention.
You get to see my dials, but I do not. I get to see your dials, but you do not.

That would be fun.


Seriously, though, I'm pretty much with you in assuming that either all or nothing would be the way to go, but probably for different reasons.

May main concern is quite selfish, actually. I don't want to have to be judging and deal with some man-child who thinks he's rather clever. He'll ask to look at his opponent's card and then "cleverly" pull some shenanigan to peek at the dial.
It could be "Oops...I seem to have accidentally dropped another card and it landed with the dial side up...again. My bad."
It could be just turning it around to catch a quick glance as he hands it back.
In any case, I foresee myself getting called over to deal with that.
It's an easy enough situation to handle, sure. Give the guy a warning the first time, and then a loss or a DQ for a future infraction.
If the guy's legitimately a butterfingers, then he can take measures to not do it again, like just sliding the cards across the table. (Heck, I'd even suggest that when issuing the warning.)
But while it is easy to handle, it's still not a pleasant thing I'd like to have to handle.

That said, I imagine that there will be a bunch of people who just allow the opponents to see the full card anyway.

Not that it matters for wk official events, but I'm allowing any numbered dial to be checked in my venues tournaments. There is a distinct advantage to knowing your dial and if one person can see information (ie: new cards) and another cannot (ie: old cards) it creates an unbalanced atmosphere of play.

Honestly at first I liked the idea of click information being on cards, but it's becoming clear as time passes that it was a less than stellar idea.

I'd suggest checking with your player base to see how they feel first, to make sure you don't end up having some sort of mass exodus as a result. I personally wouldn't play at a venue that did that. I'm not trying to be offensive either, that's just my opinion on the matter and I'm probably not the only one who feels that way.

Plenty of potential for shenanigans because the mechanics arent crisp and clean. Even with guys trying to get the other guy DQed, dropping the card as they hand it to the opponent and then blaming him for dropping the card.

The half fold card for Devil Dinosaur you just know isnt going to stay flat comes to mind.

Hm. I know there are several guys at our venue that use an Android HCRules app, and for the iOS side of things a few of us just have the PDFs of the PAC/Rulebook/Giant Size rules on our phones.

Would those get a strike against using them at an Open, or would those be allowed do you think?

I don't see a difference between those and the paper copies, besides being more searchable in a rush.

Any thoughts on that situation?



I guess it will matter if they make any PAC/rulebook changes this year, and how soon the PDF would get upgraded.

Electronic devices are not allowed.

You can't "accidentally" access the units section or otherwise cheat with a paper copy. Whether or not someone does actually do that doesn't particularly matter. The possibility exists.

And let us not forget the possibility of coaching via text and other such things that electronic devices would allow.

Indeed. filler

The reason to put Dials on cards is it makes it easier for new players to get proficient with the game. In addition players will be able to team build with much more ease. Currently, I feel compelled to use this FINE website units section.

I do think there will eventually be sideline abuse. Figures will be part of sideline that have no shot of joining the game just to look at dials, unless there is ruling banning that.

THIS is exactly what we needed. Another potential big time point of contention when, unenviably, different players and judges have different interpretations that vary from scenario to scenario..... So easy to see it coming, too. This venue does this, this on does something else, this third venue it depends on modern or golden age, or if its raining on a Tuesday, you get the idea.

Its a matter of opinion whether knowing a dial actually helps the new player get more proficient with the game.

I just dont get why you think this ok...

...and this isnt.

If the dials dont need to be hidden why do they need to be hidden at all.