"One" of the Scenario's involved a D.D. Survivor equipped with Snatch Steal that was flipped face-down. That gave the opponent Permanent Control of D.D. Survivor, much the same as Creature Swap would.

I know, but the scenario involving Snatch Steal explains that Strike Ninja would go back the Original Owner because it is not equipped with Snatch Steal anymore.

Im just clarifying that the D.D. Survivor first scenario given was with Snatch Steal or Brain Control, I was never under the impression that Creature Swap was used on him.

Nooo...

Creature Swap wasnt used. D.D. Survivor was Snatched and flipped. I used Creature Swap as an example to show how a monster equipped with Snatch Steal that gets flipped face-down is changed control of just like Creature Swap would do.

Oooooh =P, kk, I misunderstood what you were trying to explain :o.

masterwoo0, owner always has and always will refer to the owner of the card. "permanent control" doesn't matter. strike ninja says its removed until the end of the turn, at which point it returns to its controller's field, hence the reason if creature swap is used it returns to that player instead of the owner.

just think about cards that return stuff to the owner's hand, the owner's deck, etc. it always goes to the person who own's the card.

I believe that the correct statement was "The Original Owner". If it were simply "The Owner", it would not need to list "original".

Strike Ninja returns to the controller. That is SO interchangeable. If you read the ruling, who does it return to if it is Snatch Steal is played on it and then it is removed from play? It returns to the "owner". What if the Owner is the Controller? If I take my Strike Ninja from my opponent who controls it with Snatch Steal, with my own Snatch Steal, does the word "Controller" still apply when it returns to the field? No. It goes to the last person who had Permanent Control, which is synonymous with being the owner of the card while it is on the field.

ok, that post didn't even make sense. the correct statement as opposed to what?

"strike ninja returns to the controller" is SO interchangeable with what?

the point i made is that strike ninja is nothing like dd survivor. strike ninja is RETURNED TO THE FIELD. that means he returns to the same field in the same position as when he removed himself, if the controller only had control through an effect that is no longer in place then he immediatly returns to the player who is supposed to control him.

dd survivor is not returned to the field, he is SPECIAL SUMMONED. also, his effect is activated in the the removed from play pile. which means his effect is equatable to a graveyard effect. so who's removed from play pile does it activate in? the owner's thats who. think of it like the sacred phoenix, except instead of needing to be destroyed by an effect it needs to be removed from play while face up.

strike ninja does not return to the last person who had permanent control of it, it technically returns under the control of the last person who had any type of control over it before it removed itself. afterwards it switches back.

ok. . i got a lil confused with everyones big words.
my opponent snatch steals my strike ninja he removes it from play.
end phase: goes back to my opponents side of the feild then emmediatly switches back to my side. . .
now DD survivor is a diffrent story. . .
a story i have not heard yet. . .

You DID read the same ruling I did, didnt you?? Creature Swap is not a "Lingering Effect", so what control does it give a player? Permanent Control until the monster is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, returned to hand or deck.

"Any kind of control" is what??? Are you saying Creature Swap is included as "Any kind of Control" as related to Brain Control, Change of Heart, or Snatch Steal? These last three do not give you Permanent Control if the monster is removed from play. Creature Swapped monsters are under your control, as referenced by the Ruling from Curtis.

What you are saying is that "any kind of control" will allow Strike Ninja to be returned to the player the last had it. Sure. That is true. But who will he return to in the end? The last person who had Permanent Control, which is NOT "any kind of control".

Just show the ruling that says D.D. Survivor must return to the Person who takes him home at the end of the Match, NOT the card text statement, because like I said, Sacred Phoenix says it can be Special Summoned when it is destroyed, but it doesnt say it cant if it is removed from play, does it? But we know from the additional Rulings that he can't.

I'll gladly concede when you provide that.


Your question was answered. The problem is, people are making the same type of argument they made over why both players can't use the effect of Ulitmate Offering. The text said (used to say), "A Player", so it must mean both....

http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=9782

Thought this might be relevant to the current discussion.

Enjoy.

Someone actually got Dan to answer a Forum Discussion question. And I thought they were "taboo"...

Good job! Guess I was wrong. Mow if they'll only answer the more difficult ones as well.