I quote from Field Manual: Federated Suns-
Armor Piercing Ammunition
Standard autocannon ammunition consists of high-explosive armor-piercing (HEAP) rounds. Manufacturers have always experimented with ways to improve the armor-piercing qualities of standard AC rounds, but have made no significant advances in the last four centuries. However, researchers at the New Avalon Insitute of Science (NAIS) have made a breakthrough that greatly increases the armor-piercing power of an AC round by using a combination of top-secret materials and explosives. Though sheer weight of this type of round reduces its muzzle velocity, cutting its accuracy and reducing the number of rounds per ton, its designers believe the increased armor penetrationis worth the tradeoff.


not exactly as in-depth as I remember (gimme a break, I hate the FedSuns), but thats the deal. Now, how would adding a 2+ to hit be balancing the system? If I wanted a +2 to hit for my SE, I'd rather have pulse because that actually gives positive results if you actually hit (again). Now then, a compromise would be something along the lines of such massive amounts of armor being put on a mech causes stress on the internal structure that it is not designed to handle. As a mech suffers from the wear-and-tear of combat, there is a chance it's structure can warp and break. Each times a mech with armor SE takes damage, the player must roll a die. On a result of 1 or 2, the mech takes damage equal to it's level of armor SE... heavy = 1, hardened = 2, reactive = 2 (only from energy), reflective = 2 (only from ballistic)

Compromise, right? Now if we went by the book, AP would also deal extra damage to non-SE armored individuals, because it would more than likely be more effective in penetrating.



Haha! FASA didn't go bankrupt because Battletech lost popularity. You people are clueless!
www.classicbattletech.com

Learn something from the game that gave you Mechwarrior: Dark Age, it's still around, even stronger. Have you even attempted to play, lately?

Oh well, and I thought you were a real Wolf.

I've worked at a hobby store. NOBODY played battletech, it was way way way less popular then, for example, warhammer. I tried to stock more battletech, but it never sold so it eventually went on clearance.

Also I didn't know you were a partial owner of fasa and had access to their financial statements. Cause if you didn't read their financial statements, how the #### can you make the statement that " FASA didn't go bankrupt because Battletech lost popularity".

The introduction of the clans alienated many players, thought I thought it was exciting. What I didn't like was the continual introduction of better and better technology, it got to be boring and tedious. Protomechs, wtf?

So whats your point? FASA went bankrupt, Battletech is still popular. It's fine, around my part of CT. Look around the site ;-P

I guess I was right, you haven't played lately. :ermm:

Geese, shut up prydefalcon. We're not playing CBT so get off your high horse and don't whine at people who don't care.

Dont tell people to shut up.

Did he call you an #######? Then dont call him a whiner. Both are insults.

As it was stated before, the problem with AP is with arty and not nessicarily with its cost/effectiveness. That is a topic for any number of threads already deep into "discussion".

Now as much as I would like to make yuri that much harder to hit with his 23 hardened, it doesnt promote balance. While with careful thought Im sure something could be worked up but it would detract from the idea of a simple and quick game. As it stands AP is balanced enough. Personally I think it shouldnt work against decoy but thats also another subject.
To compare this game to CBT is simply not a valid rebuttle. While CBT is no doubt the source, MWDA is a entirly different game. Being based in the same universe has no bearing on MWDA's balance.
@warflail I second that comment.

droping my two cents in the bucket...

why is it that people have to insist on bring CBT (fluff or game play) into MW:DA ?? this is NOT CBT... this is a WizTopps game bassed off of the PC games wich are loosely based on CBT.

why is it people insist on bringing Reality to the game? it doesn't affect the game in the slightest and does not supoort your argument at all in my oppinion.

point i'm trying to make. fluff is good, but we are trying to hammer out game mechanics to make certain units more viable or worth their point costs. arguments about fluff that and fluff this are tedius, as well as evading the real problems. to me Fluff based arguments are basicly a paltry atemt to blind side the argument with shytzen, rather than hard fact.

Shytzen: fluff says that Armour Piercing should do this, i think the game should reflect this.

Hard Fact: because of the current game mechanics, units with AP are dominating the playing field and thus are rendering units with armour special equipment rather usless. Example. how does AP cancel out Decoy?

lets think intelligently people. drop the fluff bassed arguments, they proove absolutly nothing, especialy in a game where it's tried and true that fluff and reality have little or no bearing on what is made or how it is played.

Whether you like it or not Foust, MW:DA is CBT 50 or so years down the road. So, no I do not believe the game cancels out established fluff.

Now, I'm not using fluff and reality as a basis for my argument, just to support my argument with another aspect. Foust, what you said WAS my core complaint about this thread. The thread was made to work up a fix to AP artillery, but it was made to encompass AP in general for some reason. The argument stands that not only would such a proposed 'fix' be breaking the balance of the game (by making units with 23 def and armor SE unpenetrable, thus defeating the point of using AP to take down hardened targets) but it does not make sense fluff-wise also. My suggested compromise was simply to prove a point of how silly the original suggestion is. On another note, I have my own argument about AP and Artillery, but this thread is going nowhere fast, so I wont bother with it.

And you are correct, I don't know how AP would ignore decoy, but frankly I don't quite encounter it as an issue in play. I want to see mechs with 23def+decoy... ooooh yeah :p


Thanks for the D, Warflail

ducky, you aren't going to get very far in life if you scold anyone who disagrees with you. It's that kind of talk that gives Highlanders a bad name to me :rolleyes:

Pryde we are in agreement. This thread IS going now where fast.
However i will have to disagree on the MWDA is CBT in 50 years. Battletech 3115 would be 50 years later. :)

:grumbles: "50 or so years"
I'm just finishing up my History term paper, excuse me for not wanting to think ;-

Pryde I was being smart, nothing serious. I was just playing on the CBT/MWDA difference. Just some of my bad jokes, sorry.

I know, I was just being sarcastic :p
(mean, this thread really is going nowhere fast. I think we killed it)

Doesn't feel good when someone ridicules your opinion in a condescending way, does it Pryde?
Maybe if everyone didn't go around acting all high and mighty, people wouldn't jump the gun and think you're insulting them. SPREAD THE WORD!

I thought my response to your specific suggestion was rather justified, and polite at the very least. I personally don't mind how someone responds to my argument as long as it's not a brain-dead rant like what yours is. You are only hurting yourself by acting like that... In fact, it does feel rather good to see that your argument is reduced to petty name-calling in the end.


Spread what word? :noid:

I think we are going to see a few changes here shortly:

1) AP will be changed with respect to decoy. Our vast VTOLs fleets are on the endangered species list. The new Aesir and MHI tanks will see to that. VTOLs will need this chance at survival.

2) The SS arrow 4 tank will get nerfed some how. Its just too freakin' good. AP artillery is the worst element of the game and now we have a true game breaker.

Regular old direct fire AP is not that problematic. Its hard to line up a shot and AP does not last long on the dial.