My sentiments exactly, topgun505. Where are the medium and long ranges for weapon systems in the current game, for example? When you do a little bit of math, it becomes awfully clear that vehicles and 'Mechs apparently are only able to shoot at short range. It's understandable given the small terrains on which is played during official tournaments (scale-wise), but it just isn't right.

And I have a creeping suspicion that those people who come with the stale argument 'MW:DA' isn't BattleTech' don't care at all for the BattleTech-universe. And they're wrong, by the way. On the back of Counterassault-boosters you can find the text 'The BattleTech Collectable Miniature Game'. Fascinating, eh? It would be nice if the rules of the game would also remind us of the BattleTech legacy instead of the cripple ruleset for the game which was designed By The Same People Who Designed MageKnight. Urgh.

Are you the gentleman who had ordered a flame? Nothing personal, but am I correct in assuming that you're talking about Big 'Splodies Kelly? A better ruleset would be nice and apparently not too difficult to write given the shoddy workmanship which we have to work with at the moment. But having Faith in Kelly is just a bridge too far... it's not like she's the reincarnation of the Virgin Mary or the manifestation of the Earth Goddess. She's just as mortal as you and me.

Hm, looks like I'm exaggerating. Business as usual.

They should have done that when they first started releasing this game, but apparently they thought that the only people who would be willing to play MW:DA were MageKnight-players yearning for a variation on a theme. Looks like WizKids' marketing department made some tactical errors, but what else is new. Let's see if the future brings us a more decent mix of Clix and BattleTech-concepts. A section with optional rules in the rulebook would be nice too, that way you can bring some variation in the game without having to develop houserules. Personally I like houserules, but some people are wary of them. People have a tendency to distrust what they don't know, after all.

Looks like I'm going to get myself a number of boosters of the Falcon's Prey-set too, despite my criticism concerning the game. I still like (most of) the miniatures.

Exactly, the BattleTech-designrules clearly state that there's no maximum to the amount of armor that you can mount on a tank's location, whereas a 'Mech cannot carry more than twice the pointvalue of its internal structure when it comes to points of armor on a given location. Still tanks die faster than 'Mechs since they do not have a flexible internal structure. Also they suffer more from critical hits. Also, a fusion engine in a vehicle will always be 50% heavier than the same class of fusion engine when installed in a 'Mech & there's equipment which cannot be mounted on/in vehicles, like double strength heat sinks and triple strength myomers.

I could go on saying how sometimes mechs aren't always the answer, and tactics is part of picking the right tool for the job, but I won't beat a dead horse.

I will however agree that VOTLs are overpowered in their current state, the fact that you can't swat them down with a single volley has me disappointed ^^ other than that, well, we're getting an 18" range mech in this set (wait - whats this... AC/2s having a use? Hmmn, so MW:DA HAS done something positive ^^) and many of the faster infantry pieces (mainly the 7-8" movers) go a little fast. Just keep in mind the movement rates that mechs CAN move at... meh. Maybe if they max out infantry movement at 6" we'll actually see people deploying APCs to move infantry instead of using it to fire on the move.

Personally, I don't mind the lower attack OR defense (not both though, thankfully at least so far we've seen mechs that generally excell in one or the other) because mechs in FP seem to keep stats higher after damage. I'd rather have a mech that keeps 9 attack throughout than a mech that drops from 10 to 7 attack from the same damage... after I've dealt more than once with my SSw Pheonix Hawk that drops to like 4 attack and speed before salvage ;-P
If you quit complaining that your mechs aren't good enough on the first click, then maybe you'll stop complaining about how making the first attack wins the game.

Regardless of the (often valid) complaints in this thread, I think it IS worth noting that things overall are going MUCH better than they were 4 months ago. So I really wouldnt advise anyone to go abandoning the game at this particular juncture.

Edit: Noting, not nothing. ;)

Actually all the Mechwarrior Darkage sets have shown me is how messed up the point system and power balancing is for units.

Problems with point system
Keeping a single se through out the dial is cheaper then keeping the same stat.

An SE combined with a high stat is more expensive then the same se with a much lower stat. Even when the stat has nothing to do with the SE. Case in point Command. Second Case in point Point Defense.

Heat Dials which provide the most useful in game ability to mechs are routinely made to eliminate the most expensive ability of a mech without providing any kind of discount for the loss of that ability.

Artillery is cheaper if it has a shorter range for its non artillery attack when that provides a larger benefit to the unit then a longer range for its non artillery attack. Case in Point long tom vrs ArrowIV.
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Vapir Oxygen Vaporizer

What Warflail said. Personally I'll wait until they totally renovate the rules before I'm considering the whole official play schtick to be a thing of the past in my book or not.

Until you can show me exactly how this "point system" WK uses works, all you said was simply heresay regarding what stuff is actually worth.

Mechs with bad heat dials have those dials so that they are BALANCED and cannot use an uber-SE/powerhouse damage value so liberally. Someone may say "Well, WK actually did a mech right with Arnis Drummond" and I say "Well Arnis is a broken mech, he has all of the positive and none of the negative."

The Long Tom is so expensive because of its obscenely longer range. Play a larger battle on a larger play area and tell me how useful that is.


etc etc etc.

Once you have every statistic of every unit memorized, it's very easy to then do comparisons and figure out costs.

Perhaps the Long Tom vs Arrow IV isn't the best example, so then compare the Padillas to the Arrow IVs, particularly the Highlander and Republic Padillas. Then compare the Highlander DI Towed Field Artillery to the StormHammer version.

After multiple comparisons surfaces the evidences.

Meh... I lost faith in WK a while ago. Pretty much stopped buying, though I play once in a while. Set retirement pretty much killed my desire to try and keep up.

Perhaps it's because I've been "forced" to become a casual player, but nothing WK has done recently really rankles me, set retirement included. I whole-heartedly enjoy Mechwarrior (still quite obsessed despite playing once every two weeks at best), I'm really looking forward to Falcon's Prey, and will like drop as much spare cash as I can on boosters.

Personally, I can see how set retirement will benefit the game in the long run. I also think Kelly and the new design team will are working to point the game in a new, positive direction. Does that mean every new piece will be a jewel? No, unfortunately that seems to be either a WK policy or an inherent flaw in the Collectible whatever Game genre. Will there be more overall balance and fun? I think so.

I guess it doesn't bother me because I'm so busy trying to make (start?) my way in the world (finishing my thesis in a month and a half and am actively seeking employment) and so frequently see how people in general are being screwed over in far more important issues. The flaws of a company who makes a game I otherwise absolutely love playing just don't bother me in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps its just my perspective.

They should've went back to their first idea for the title of Mechwarrior. ^^

Prydefalcn. Yes you are correct in that vehicles can mount an insane amount of armor in comparison to mechs. There is one important distinction though that has already been touched on.

Speed.

In CBT. Speed is life. It is the reason why light mechs, VTOLs, and Savannah Masters can actually live more than 1 turn in combat. They may have aluminum foil for armor but you'll be ####ed if you can hit the buggers with any pilot that has a 4 gunnery (which is standard) or worse. In MWDA speed has no such effect ... but yet the unit types aren't changed accordingly. Thus a Wasp has light armor (short dial and low defense) and it's speed doesn't help it survive. So you end up with unit that can't take any punishment AND is easy to hit. The entire design concept of units really needs a major overhaul.

If I had designed MWDA, in order to make some sort of sense ... IMHO ... I would have done:


-Remove move and shoot from VTOLs

-VTOLs would only have 1 or 2 clicks of life! But their defense would be around 25-26 (REALLY #### hard to hit).

-Light mechs would have a high defense (at LEAST a 20) but a short dial.

-Medium mechs would have about the same defense as Light mechs ... maybe a point or two higher for the better ones ... but their stats would drop much slower and have a considerably longer dial.

-Heavy/Assault mechs would have a high defense (23-25) and stats would drop next to nil over the whole course of the dial and would have near max # of clicks.

-Vehicle defense values would follow the same design concept as the mechs but their dials would be shorter by comparison to their mech counterparts and will typically do slightly less damage.

-ALL wheeled/tracked vehicles can NOT be hauled by APCs. No more tank-dropping non-sense. Armored personnel carriers should be carrying just that ... PERSONNEL.

-Any critical hit on a vehicle destroys it. Period. This reflects the critical hit nature in CBT. Considering the probability of a critical hit is only 3% I doubt anyone could find huge fault with this.

-As a result of the previous 2 above ... vehicles would cost much less than they do now (probably on the order of half what they do now). Since they can no longer move and shoot they will be taken out a lot easier ... but you can now field more of them.

-Infantry basing a mech does NOT prevent it from firing.

-Charging can only be done out to 1x your movement (but still must be conducted as a run) and heavy and hardened armor SECs on the target reduce the damage done. This is a desparation move only. It is the only attack a mech can do where they don't have to start the turn with LOS to the target.

That at least is a start. Just my $.02 though ... which is bout all it's worth.

"The flaws of a company who makes a game I otherwise absolutely love playing just don't bother me in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps its just my perspective."

This is true. although it is forbidden to talk about politics in this forum you may want to take a look outside the window before you worry about mechwarrior too much. (International politics MA speaking)

Mind you, I do enjoy playing Mechwarior, but only on a casual basis. I find the idea of min/maxed competition reprehensible at best. Back to the topic, Me and the 3 guys i play will will split a case of FP and call it quits. I need cash for tuition fees.

www.informationclearinghouse.info

mlotoole0 is just echoing what I have been saying since CA. This game is dying.


Mechwarrior Darkage has cancer. Had Wizkids caught the symptoms earlier, it could have been saved, but now it is too late and its going to die.

I also agree with Nanhold, I have very very little faith in Kelly. Actually, thats not fair, I lack faith in Wizkids as a whole, and Kelly happends to work for Wizkids. Nothing personal Kelly.

thats the... spirit?

Okay.

I want mechs to be able to beat everything.

There. Said it. Because, uh, let's see, with WizKids own declared design, a 300 point mech should stand a chance against 300 points of anything else. I want a game where a 128 point Danni Haag is a match for a 94 point DI Schmidt and a 31 point Maxim. I want a game where a 136 point SC Crimson Hawk is not demonstrably inferior to a 60 point SC Donar.

Until that point, yes, there will be complaints because the units (mech or otherwise; feel free to add in Behemoth or JESII instead of mech) do not come close to their printed value.