Huzzah!

Having just won a nice Kristoff Erbe thanks to Dereck, I have to disagree with all these complaints about this massive avatar of war.

My army:

Dereck Hasbani - Atlas
SS Paladin Defence System
4x Purifier Battle Armor
2x Hoverbike Squad.

Dereck took damage only from using his SU-AS. Having massive defence and damage makes you just a little hard to kill.

Since I play SS, and Falcons, and often try them against one another to see if bad heat and massive damage can overcome low defence, low damage, and great heat.

Sure, Shone is nice, but even he cannot stand against the Blue Metal Wall. Who shoots first? Dereck, needing a twelve, probably over blocking terrain while in water (terrain is all important for all battles). If he hits, it is over. Shone drops to 9 attack with Streaks, and is still out of range. Dereck shoots again, and Shone cannot do more than 1 damage at range anymore.

Shone needs a 15(!) to hit indirectly, after Dereck has had a free shot already. Shone will not get into DFA range without having had to deal with multiple free shots by the Atlas. (remember, water!) Given that, on average, at least one of those shots will hit, Shone has SU-JJ, and 9 attack, needing 16 to hit a DFA, and Dereck will turn around and ruin him.

Jiyi has the same problem, but gets first shot at hitting repeated 15's and 14's. Not easy, and eventually, Jiyi will run out of room to run, or will have lost enough points of his support that the SS player will win on points and VC's. If Hasbani ever hits Jiyi with those Streaks, the fight is over, since Jiyi will have no armour piercing, and Hasbani will have Hardened Armor, meaning, no damage to the Atlas.

And you only use Alpha Strike as a joke, since it takes so long to restart, just use Streaks, more base damage, longer range, duel targets (if you turn off the SE).

Fluff wise, this Atlas is very old, and has seen a lot of battle. It already has taken down plenty of foes, and it still does. Period.

Well said Quantrill. The backbone of any SS force has always been its infantry and armor. Our 'Mechs tend to provide heavy support rather than frontline assault capabilities.

That being said, I would like to share some observations (whether they are right or wrong I leave up to you - no insults intended).

1) One should never allow people to talk one out of playing a piece one likes.

2) The most experienced players can make do with almost any unit in the game.

3) The more experienced players tend to debate with rather sound and logical reasoning.

4) The rather inexperienced players seem to be the fastest to judge and quickest with insults (toward pieces).

<Begin treatise>

Have I ever used Dereck?

Yes, multiple times.

Have I ever won with Dereck?

Yes, multiple times.

Are there better 'Mechs than Dereck?

Probably.

Is Dereck usable?

Definitely.

Those who would immediately look at a unit and disregard it as "sucky" are probably those who have yet to experience all the aspects of this game. When I first started playing MW:DA, I did what I always do when selecting a faction for a faction based game (a la Warhammer) - I picked the one that would be the hardest to play. It may not be your philosophy, but IMHO, the larger the handicap I put on myself, the better I will be as a player if I were to use one of the easier factions to play. That is why I picked the Swordsworn. Dereck is not one of the easiest 'Mechs to use, but it is possible to use him effectively. I won't go into specific details on how to use him, as even within a given group of diehard faction purists, many will still have their own playstyles. Some may want to use him as an ambush 'Mech, using blocking terrain to its fullest. Others may use him as a static weapons platform, sitting in a pond the entire time. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if someone charged with Ol' Blue and Alpha Striked something to death. The point is, it IS possible to use him.

Some of you have outright said that he sucks. This may be because you have not yet been able to find a tactic for him, or because of the comments of your peers or some on these boards.

To you I say this:

Never discount a piece in this game, no matter how bad it may initially seem. The more you play this game, the more you will learn. Eventually you will have enough experience to play any unit effectively.

Even taking into account competitive play, this is still a game. Have fun. If you think you will have a good time playing a certain way, or with a certain piece, then do it. If you like to win, then think about the bragging right you would get from beating someone with something like the SS Koshi :p.

Well, that ends my comment of the day.

Good luck, have fun.

<End treatise>

Dereck Hasbani is an awesome peice. However you need to be able to support him correctly to play him effectively. All this talk of move and shoot realistically doesnt apply as he will be a retired piece (sucks doesnt it!). However he does have 6 streak damage which is quite nasty, and better than Paladin Jonah Levins 5 (however Jonah Levin makes up for that with an 11 attack!)

Most - not all pieces are playable one way or another. Depends on how good you are with tactics, and how lucky your oponent is.

Back in the era of 300 pt, 3 order games, a friend of mine used Dereck and a SS Fenrir, and actually won that tourney. Never seen anything like it happen since.

I personally only used him once, in a multiplayer city battle. I had a rear arc shot on a hatchetman, used the alphastrike, missed, and never got the chance to start back up.

We're playing a game geared towards larger mechs in a week, maybe I'll pull him out then.

And that's the whole point. Any piece is playable, with skill. Skill being equal, Dereck peels Jiyi's Mech apart and makes MechToeJam out of him. For all Jiyi's range, if he's moving, he's not firing. If he's firing, he's not moving. So, he gets a choice, try to take Big Blue out, or run. If he runs, you wipe his support out of existence. If he fights, he loses.

Where's the hard part here? Managing the heat dial? I have to hope that after playing a couple of games, players are aware of water and venting, not to even mention natural cooling.

Terrain? Blocking and water are Hasbani's friends. Hindering doesn't make much of a difference.

All in all, only a skilled player can use 90% of Mechs and win. That's why tournaments have devolved into using the other 10% of Mechs.

I have to agree with Arsenal-Wolf. Dereck Hasbani's Atlas is an awesome piece. Of course, since I'm the one who started this thread you all probably expected this response. Infantry and armor may be the backbone of us Swordsworn, but our 'Mechs have always been our sledgehammers. Hard to use, hard to wield, but when used right, the results are downright spectacular. I have to admit, Arsenal-Wolf, that I'm one of those players who charge an enemy and Alpha Strike him to death. Of course, since I have been unable to go to any tournaments(being where I am, there aren't any within range), I don't know how well that tactic would work. And, of course, lacking a means of transportation also limits me drastically. Can someone please get an MW:DA tournament near Mississippi? I want to use Dereck to kick some enemy butt. That's it. End of speech.

Where in MS?

There are 5 active envoys in MS, their WK usernames are:
cletus
Jokerfool
Pudster
Sithrel
TW1Kell


These places aren't close to you? They have all run MW tournaments this month.

Hobbytown USA - Tupelo
4378 Mall Drive
Tupelo Mississippi,
United States

Comics and Stuff
107 Rankin Extended
Tupelo Mississippi,
United States

Gamezone
1200 E.Countyline rd ste 167
Ridgeland Mississippi,
United States

Hobbycenter
1003 W. Hardy St.
Hattiesburg Mississippi,
United States

I did a quick search for the next 6 days, MS turned up nothing, but:

Alabama:
MechWarrior Sealed Event
(373178) Sealed 10/29/2004 5:00:00 PM Legion
3248 Cahaba Heights Road
Birmingham Alabama,
United States

MechWarrior Unrestricted Event 2
(373292) Unrestricted 10/28/2004 6:00:00 PM Kingdom Comics
1425 Montgomery Highway Suite 119, Park South Plaza Shopping Cen
Vestavia Hills Alabama,
United States

MechWarrior Demo
(373317) Demo 10/29/2004 6:00:00 PM Ground Zero
6850 Moffett Rd
Mobile Alabama,
United States

MechWarrior Unrestricted Event 2
(377847) Unrestricted 10/25/2004 6:00:00 PM The DeeP Comics and Games
3322 S. Memorial Pkwy Suite 101
Huntsville Alabama,
United States

MechWarrior Unrestricted Event 2
(367441) Unrestricted 10/28/2004 6:00:00 PM Hasting's
750 E Glenn Ave.
Auburn Alabama,
United States

MechWarrior Unrestricted Event 2
(368129) Unrestricted 10/27/2004 5:30:00 PM Fusion
1508 Hwy 78 E Sut. 100
Jasper Alabama,
United States

Louisiana:
MechWarrior Unrestricted Event 1
(368447) Unrestricted 10/24/2004 1:30:00 PM Galactic Goods
343/347 West Esplanade Ave
Kenner Louisiana,
United States

MechWarrior Unrestricted Event 1
(377152) Unrestricted 10/28/2004 3:00:00 PM Rock City Games
49055 Hwy.51N
Tickfaw Louisiana,
United States

Arkansas:
junkyard wars 3
(371459) Unrestricted 10/24/2004 1:00:00 PM Family Games Center
9700B Rodney Parham
Little Rock Arkansas,
United States

So, depending on exactly where you are, some of this might be in range. The other factor is that any game shop in your area COULD run tournaments, all you need is a Battlemaster and a Venue.

Tate County. The closest retailer is the Reel World @ 9823 Goodman Rd., and Dark Age ain't sellin' so well there. Plus, there is my acute lack of transportation. If you're nearby, maybe we could just get together sometime for an informal battle.

This is a common argument in these forums. "People don't use X in their armies because they don't have the skill to play it" where X is any piece like Dereck Hasbani, the HL Uller, a spatula, your mom, etc.

At a certain point, skill doesn't enter into the equation, because some pieces are better than other pieces. Whenever someone beats another person when their opponent's force is much better than their own, it is almost always because of :
a. Lucky Die rolls/ Unlucky die rolls
b. The other player not knowing how to handle his army.
If someone really want's to win, they will use the best forces available to them.

Dereck, being the huge waste of plastic that he is, just isn't a very good mech. There are lots more mechs that leave him in the dust, and are not bound to a pool of water to keep from overheating and exploding. It is also what makes Swordsword mechs so bad. Only a few like Gary Metcalf have decent heat dials, and he is offset by his 9 attack and high point cost. I am mystified that anyone would use Dereck.

I disagree. I went 2-1 in a 500 pointer (back when it was 1 order
per 100 points) with a Highlander pure army featuring 2
Legionnaires. The one game I lost was due to one of my
hoverbikes being fragged. Does that make my 3 opponents
unlucky and/or incompetent, in your eyes?

1) He does not have to be bound to water. (Why do people keep thinking this?)

2) If you are so mystified, then try him out yourself if you haven't already. Or challenge the best player at your venue to use him.

Just because you may think he sucks, don't go around trying to enforce your views on everyone else. Some people may actually be able to use him to full effect.

As for your comment on us saying that "People don't use X in their armies because they don't have the skill to play it," I never said that those who do not use units such as Dereck lack skill. Many are probably very skilled players, but they are probably skilled in the aspects of their own play style. People who play with fast moving armies would probably think that Dereck is a bad choice, a bad choice for them. Others, however, who prefer slow methodical armies (for example) may actually find him useful. The point I was trying to make in my previous post was to keep an open mind and learn from other players. If you play against someone with a different style of play from you, then watch how they play. You may be able to learn a new tactic, unit combination, or over all strategy. From there, you can apply this knowledge to your own army or use it to find a way to counter it. You may even want to build a whole new army around this knowledge.

Experience does not necessarily equate skill. A very skilled player may not have much experience. They may be good, but they may not have seen everything that this game could throw at them (though I don't know anyone who has).

Skill is very much an important part of this game, and is divided into two major aspects that balance each other - army building and game play. Army building is pretty self explanatory - designing an army that will best fit one's play style. Game play skill can many things. Organization of formations, selecting priority targets, movement, and unit placement are some of the many decisions a player will have to make. It is here that skill makes its presence known. A skilled player will be the one who can make the best decisions most of the time.

Skill doesn't just mean the ability to use a piece. It is the ability to use every aspect of the game to one's advantage - knowing the rules, units, and being able to analyze both your and your opponent's style.

I never said, nor did anyone else here say (I think), that Dereck was a kick butt piece. What we did say was that, for some, it is possible to use him effectively.

P.S. - Leave my spatula out of this :p.

(Oh yea, my mom, too.:cheeky: )

i think that some mechs suck.... they really do.

but i dont the Dereck does. Good defence, damage, decent movement, good ranges.... just a bad heat dial.

he isnt going to win worlds or anything, but he can still be good

My Eribee Childs faced Dereck Hasbani in an unrestricted tournament a couple of weeks ago and was torn apart! I do not like Sword Sworn but I would like to have one for my collection!!
TDS

Being that I'm a fan of the SwordSworn, I'm going to overlook the spelling. The rest of the post however....

You're kidding right? "Skill doesn't enter into the equation"?!?!?!? I tell you what, I'll use Dereck, you use anything you want. We both build to 450. Wanna bet you lose? And if so, how much? Don't waste my time for $5. My motto? Come big or stay home. How's $100 sound? Yes, I would do it, I'm that confident you have no idea what you're talking about regarding Mr. Hasbani.

Very good in what way? Bad heat dial? Sure. Bad damage profile? No. Bad dial? No. Bad defense, attack, movement? No. So, his worst problem is a bad heat dial? Oh, and Declan is any better? How about Erin Johnson? Jack? Eriabee? ANY ASSAULT MECH?? Or do you want to simply say that Arnis is better than Assaults? **yawn**

It's these kind of sweeping, narrow-minded comments that help the new players form the opinions that they should only collect 5% of the units, 'cause that's all that's playable. The problem is, it's all bull.

Yes, I challenge you to play something DIFFERENT. Stop hiding behind your one or two forces, and get out there. Worried about your rating? Why? Worried you might lose? Why? I can think of two possible reasons. Fear and Lack of Skill.

Yes, that's right, Lack of Skill. When you say "X sucks" you can only be pointing to the fact that you can't use X effectively. So, grow stronger. I have a complete lack of skill using Spirit Cats. I think it's the drugs they use. I see the pieces, I understand their stats, but for some reason I just don't play them well. So I don't play them often. But I do play them. And sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. But at least I don't hide behind one army. How many players do you know that carry 50 lbs of MW pieces to every tournament they go to, 5 - 7 days a week??? And yes, there are some players on here from my area who can attest to that fact and you can look up my username to see how many games I play in. You can also get them to tell you quite clearly that they see new armies from me all the time. Many of them faction pure. And somehow, strangely, I win a good bit. In the "build" box, I carry Hasbani, a brightly repainted Hasbani in fact. I also carry Jacyn Bell, although I don't like Liao. Add to the list about 40 other Mechs that I carry, rotating them out of my play collection at home. Just can't carry everything around with me.

Never played Highlanders much before the last couple weeks, and I've made 7 different armies that revolve around Kava, Chas, and Dock. Why? Fun. Done pretty well too, lost 1 game out of my last 25 or so, using the Kava 600 army. Lost by a single infantry piece, oh well, to a great local player.

It's a bonafide challenge. If you think any Mech "sucks" your challenge is to find a way to use it successfully. And the challenge on top of that is to do it faction pure.

P.S. Arnis, in faction pure, sucks.

Well I have no idea where Tate County is. I grew up in Louisiana, but only visited MS, I had cousins living in Pascagoula.

So, if there's a retail store near you that you can get to regularly, and they are a WK venue, get them to sponsor an envoy and run some tournaments. Tournaments are the best way to increase sales. Players become buyers when they want more pieces. And a really competitive crowd can make a venue really happy with sales.

BTW, I live near Boston.