Show us in the rules where it says this? Because it quite easily shows even in the Basic Rulebook that damage from characters all comes from seperate sources. The various characters involved. Vulture's got 2 natural, Charaxes does 0 themself, and Mys' BEL is replaced to 5. Any other teammate contributes their ATK, plus/minus modifiers.

Say I team attacked with the 3 characters. In your case, I do 0 damage (Charaxes).
In mine: Charaxes does 0, Mystique does 5, Vulture does 2, for a total of 7. I take how much Vulture did (2) and add that to my END.

Seperate sources of damage and powers. Not one pool together. Besides, how does one get to do it equally? In the original it was Vulture (2) and Venom (12). To be equal you'd need to add up then divide by # of attackers (2 in this case), so each would do 7 damage each? How'd Venom get weak and Vulture stronger? And what about fractions?

All will be settled soon and we won't have to speculate anymore.

602.7 The conclusion of a direct attack follows all rules for concluding an attack except as follows.

602.7a A player's endurance total is reduced by an amount equal to the ATK of the attacking character, or by the total ATK values of all attacking characters in the case of a team attack. This replaces ATK and DEF comparison.

602.7b All endurance loss caused by direct attacks is considered breakthrough endurance loss.


Just for reference for those who won't read back....
"or by the total ATK values of all attacking characters in the case of a team attack. This replaces ATK and DEF comparison."

And by equally I do nto mean that you split the total between them, but that only the sum of the values is relevant, and all are considered to contribute to that total equally, but it is never divided between anyone. All are 100% equally responsible for the total.

Let's say you team attack with 3 characters for a total of 15 endurance.

You're claiming all 3 characters are considered to deal 15 breakthrough each?

Yes... they all equally contributed to that total. Not 5 from each, but the 15 only exists because all 3 of them contributed to the effort.

If that is indeed the case, there's nothing in the rules to indicate it so UDE is going to have to issue a rules update.

Just because the defending player loses the total ATK does not mean all attackers dealt that much ATK each.

The biggest problem here is that attacks Directly against the opponent are considered Breakthrough Endurance Lose instead of Direct Endurance Lose.

Joey

No one said they dealt that much attack each per se.... but the total attack is dealt by them all. there is a distinction here. They become one sum, and that sum is considered to have been dealt by them all as BEL.

If 2 men deliver a Pizza... one may drive, and one may carry it to the door. One may have lifted the Pizza more than the other... but the end result is BOTH men delivered that same Pizza equally.

I must be hungry, i am slipping into food analogies.

Once the Pizza has arrived, each man in not responsible for a certain number of slices based on the initial effort, but the combined effort contributed to one Pizza equally.

That still does not relate to the topic at hand.

If Vulture contributes 2 ATK to the total, that is the amount of breakthrough dealt by Vulture.

Anything else is "new math".

No, Vulture contributes 2 Atk to the Atk value... the BEL is dealt equally by all. You don't split that back out. If this were the case....

You team up Charaxes and Cyclops,Slim. They team attack into a character direct. So now they both get +2/+2, but only Cyclops deals BEL and Charaxes can deal none? But the team attack allows Scott to trigger his +2/+2?

No, the total wopuld be reduced to zero because Charaxes is involved. All are equally responsible for the BEL, for all portions of it. So any effects, be they good or bad, will apply to the sum since a team attack is NOT a collection of single attacks.

If it were merely a collection of single attacks, then they would each be applied seperately in succession. But they aren;t, team attacks is a combination of all involved. Otherwise if Rogue and Doc Ock team attack Dark Phoenix, then she shouldn;t KO. The 'portion' contributed by Rogue is not enough to stun, so she can not force the KO by that logic, but this is not the case.

I am again with Zaxx here.

In a direct Team Attack on a player, Vultuer only deals his 2 ATK as BEL so the controller only gains 2 life.

I really don't know why this is an issue as you are getting attack effects mixed up with BEL. It makes sense for effects like stunning and such as it is a singular event produced by multiple parties. BEL is a sum of events so each event can be taken into account separately.

This is another case of too much rules-lawyering. UDE will clarifiy this shortly for all of us but it doesn't make sense to add all the BEL together and use this total as the value to compare triggered effects or modifiers to.

I agree with this viewpoint. The lumping-together case is counter-intuitive in my opinion.

-Eric

Imagine for a moment you did cause Breakthrough when Team Attacking a character... [Vulture] and [Rhino] Team Attack and cause 3 BEL, what would [Vulture]'s contribution be? how much Endurance would you gain? 0? 1? 2? or 3?

This is where the "lump sum" idea comes from, as in the above case it would have to be 3. There is no other logical or reasonable way to work it out. Unless the CRD were to simply state that Triggered effects based on Breakthrough don't apply (which is messy to me).

...back to Direct Attacks, in [Vulture]'s case it might very well be 2 Endurance gain (or whatever ATK he is currently at). However, I think the [Mystique] scenario might be different, as her effect replaces the BEL event altogether. With a character such as [Charaxes], it might just nulify his 5 ATK only.

I have a sneaky feeling (even when i first saw the rule) that this is one of the major reasons that they reserved causing Breakthrough on Team Attacks to Direct Team Attacks only. In YGO we don't have this problem because there is no Team Attacking.

I could see it going either way, hopefully we'll know soon.

Where did 3 come from?

Together, they attack for 9.

If modifiers reduce the ATK value of one or more attackers, then each contributes his modified ATK to the total.

So if Rhino gets -5 ATK, BEL is 4 and Vulture has still contributed 2 of that.

This is all moot until UDE gets back to us with the ruling.