curve actually does just fine against TNB. TNB needs a really good draw to beat them for a number of reasons. 1) lots of defense, cover fires and tag teams make it harder to hit 2) it curves from 1, more bodies mean more people get stunned back and less total damage 3) Mark V saves a lot of damage on turn four 4) nimrod has to be stunned twice and against tnb he will take out two guys with him ... at least, and then theres the mark V whos reinforcing anyone else who might be out there 5) if it goes to turn 6 you lose as bastion says you can't hit.

Bastion gets extra cards from reconstruction and using SAB every turn.

USB is almost solely for turn 7, if you can get out trisentinel and an extra one or two mark V's on turn 7 you're in erally good shape.

Yeah, pretty much. Try to get there numbers below yours for turn 7. A big smash from bastion might put them close to death, and a turn 7 Tri sential, with a coverfire could seal a turn 7 win ebcuase they will beforced to atack wither bastion or an army guy. Bastion is the only guy even with a possibility to out pump a big brotherhood deck, and if they attack the reenforced amry guys, we both take the same daamge, reducing them even closer to death. Its not perfect but agaisnt one of there worst match ups, its a pretty good option.

Jonesy - I see nimrod as useful against tnb. one big problem with what you describe is the 5 drop mags. he conveniently exhausts a 4 drop or less during his attack step, and we all know an exhausted mark v doesn't reinforce anymore. which is another reason i like dropping a boosted mark v, or mark v and a wild. added reinforcement and more bodies helps cover fire.

plus there is always blind sided - a favorite of tnb

'it curves from 1' - with 4 trasks? so is that like 20% of the time?

bastion at best can pump about 17 times. that is with 5 army in your hand on turn 6, and 4 reconstruction programs in you resource row (not very easy to achieve). big bro can get +3/+3 times 4 (drop two quicksilver, avalon, drop two quicksilver) for a whopping +12/+12 (not very difficult to achieve) oh, and big quicky is a 5 drop character, so bastion is still being built in the underground lab. oh, and if they have another avalon they can pop the first one and do it all over again.

which is a reason i have been playtesting 'unmasked'. i like this card so much that i just may write a poem about it. i think i'll call it 'Ode to Unmasked'

I would disagree. I have tested the matchup quite a bit and most of the time the Sentinels tend to be overrun.

This is absurd. The mere fact that TNB can constantly force trades means that you only two Sentinels in play on any given turn. With only one other character with range, Cover Fire is pretty bad. As a result you will have a maximum of eight defensive boosts which only grant a plus two defense bonus with characters that are only average size. TNB has up to 16 offensive boosting cards with boosts that range from plus two to plus five. You are not going to stem the bleeding with characters of that size.

This is misleading. Sentinels two drop cannot counterstun an opposing two drop unassisted while been attacked. Furthermore, the number of offensive boosts available to TNB enables them to attack upwards with relative ease. Therefore you do not tend to stun their biggest character on the defensive even with a perfect curve.

Assuming Sabretooth attacks one, which doesn't tend to happen due to the comparative number of offensive vs defensive plot twists available to each side. You also have to note that Anna Raven is able to negate a Mark V's effect entirely.

After turn five, you will tend to see one Mark V get tied up by Eric Lehnsherr.

This much tends to be true but Dingbat must be reinforced to prevent breakthrough. You also have no assistence in drawing this guy, nor do you

If your opponent doesn't get Mr. Lehnsherr.

Huh? Does Bastion magically make Savage Land and Savage Beatdown along with any TNB's in play suddenly useless especially coupled with the card drawing power of Genosha?

Do you want to expose a SASB to potential Ka-Boom! before turn six unless you really have to?

If you get to turn seven your are either almost dead, or have already won. But keeping in mind that you have a number of cards for the late game which do nothing to improve your early game, whereas TNB is focused towards the early game and is able to effectively end the game before your strong cards have an opportunity to make an impact. Realistically, I do not see this as a good matchup for Sentinels. Your best cards just tend to be outclassed by TNB's cards.

I've beaten New Brotherhood with Curve, but it has been close and they were playing Savage Land rather than Lost City/Avalon. It was a tough match. I know that it helped when I finishing moved their Rogue: Anna Raven, because she was going to be exhausting my Mark Vs. If they get a really good draw with Genosha and Magneto 5 then you are probably dead meat. You need to draw into Nimrod, Bastion and Tri on 5/6/7 either that or Master Mold on 7 with USB. If you don't get your optimal draw then you are probably dead.

I'm sure you can beat TNB with Sentinels sometimes, I'm making a point that you're not going to be doing it very often.

More to the point, I'd be more fearful of the Savage Land versions of TNB than the Lost City ones since they are more aggressive and ultimately more dangerous on a consistent basis.

If you want to beat Common Enemy, Sentinels will do it on a reasonably consistent basis. If you want to beat TNB, play a different deck (preferrably Titans).

I'm still not sure how Curve Sentinels even beat CE, i've just played about 3 games in a row, curve sentinels vs Common enemy, and CE won all 3 times. The first game i had some bad draws with the sentinels and missed a few drops. The second game things were going perfect, i even used finishing move twice to get rid of some big guns, but CE STILL won, even with only 2-3 characters out in the field by turn 7. The third game, again, i had a perfect game, again, using tag teams and finishing moves to outsmart my opponent, but in the end they STILL won. On turn 6 i might add.

Curve sentinels seems to be the deck that is suppose to win FAST, but it's having a lot of trouble with Pleasant Distraction and PAralysis running about.

I have been handing sentinel curve losses with my curve ss build, which is about hand denial (which is almost useless vs sents). I just drop big characters and fight it out and have been winning.

In my opinion sentinel curve is only tier 1.5 at best.

This is just how i see it..

Turn 1: Boris vs Boliver = Even match
Turn 2: She thing vs Sentinel MArk III = She thing wins
Turn 3: She Hulk vs Sentinel MArk II = Even she thing can take him out
Turn 4: Dr. Doom (7/9 w/doomsdat) vs Sentinel Mark V = It depends on if doom has his castle or not.. but still, i think Doom's ability > Mark's.
Turn 5: Nimrod vs Rider, Robot, Thing. = If it's vs Thing, rod loses, if it's versus the other two, advanatge to nim.
Turn 6: Bastion/Mold vs Doom/Hulk/Iceman = If Bastion's ability works, props to sents. If it doesn't, props to CE.
Turn 7: Tri Sent vs Thing/Sub = In stats, Sub and Thing are very much superior.
Turn 8: ???? vs Surfer/Doom.


Then in plots, CE can keep all those nice combat tricks away, with 3 paralysis, 3 distractions, and SOME bigger characters. CE does it's best to stall until the later turns, where i feel that CE can get superior on, starting on turn 7. Not to mention all the drawing CE does with, well, CE. How does sentinel draw extra cards? How can sentinel use those nice savages, covers, and finishing moves if CE seldom lets you attack?

I think Curve sent's biggest flaws is that it's 5+ drop characters aren't army.

Who is pictured in your Avator?


I've never seen that picture before.



Thanks.

I haven't read this thread so I do not know if this has already been said.

One of the reasons CS did so well is b/c no one had any experience playing against it. I'm not saying the deck is bad (far from it, actually), it just has a certain surprise factor that gives it an edge, much like Rigged Elections did in the PC. I doubt it will have as much success at the second PC since people will be testing against it and it will thus lose its edge.

As a side note, it does have distinct advantages over most decks

-it can have any formation and still be able to attack and counter attack
-it is very consistent due to the fact that most characters are Army
-it can adapt against almost any deck by either following the curve, swarming with USB, Master Mold, or dropping multiple small characters, and it can go for a late game burn with Tri-Sentinel
-each character is benefitted by each other character on the field (ie Nimrod gets a counter, Mark III gives Army guys a boost, Mark V reinforces Army guys, Bastion can make anyone win a fight)
-they have the two best defensive cards in the game working beautifully for them (Coverfire and Tag Team)

There's probably more than that, but my fingers are getting tired.

I suppose when you combine all of those strong points with the surprise factor, it becomes really hard to beat.

Sentinels play more combat modifying plot twists. Cover Fire or Bastion tends to wreck an opposing attacking whereas Common Enemy have a number of virtually dead cards in the matchup--Have a Blast doesn't do anything which is particularly meaningful.

Three games is hardly enough to provide an accurate picture of the matchup.

.

I'd like to point out that Finishing Move is generally a bad card in Sentinels. You usually have to exhaust a character which is pretty large in order for it to be effective and the net result--your opponent retains their second largest character as opposed to their largest going into the next turn--usually isn't worth the cost. There is really only one character which is worth removing from play, Diabolic Genius, and it must be done against the initiative to truly be effective. Personally, I'd rather play more combat modifiers than to play Finishing move.

I wouldn't say it wins fast, but I would say that from turn six onwards Common Enemy is largely outmatched in combat against the robots.

Such an analysis is largely inaccurate due to the fact that it doesm't account for plot twists which tend to have a large impact on the game. Furthermore, it doesn't account for the probabilities involved with actually getting those characters into play on a perfect curve which something which favours Sentinels from turns 2-5 and Common Enemy from turns 6-8.

I'd like to know how any of these cards makes a situation involving Cover Fire and/or Bastion good when Common enemy have the initiative. Pleasant Distraction doesn't do too much to improve any situation, it only provides temporarily relief to the inevitable: you are going to have your face smashed. Sure you may stop a counter-attack when your attack was stopped cold, but you have to realise that your attack has just been stopped cold which is not a comfortable position to be in.

Cover Fire plus Bastion tends to even those odds a lot. Turn seven still favours Sentinels in my opinion if those cards are present. Common Enemy is not going to be able to stall forever and when a situation is bad, it has got a serious problem.

All that extra card drawing? Most of the time it'll be two extra cards, which I wouldn't describe as being "all the drawing". I won't say that extra cards are not significant, but I'd like to make a point concerning the number of dead or weak draws in both decks. Flame Trap, Have a Blast, extra small characters, Unmasked and Reign of Terror to an extent do not tend to do anything impressive against Sentinels. Sentinels do not have any cards which are particularly weak except for extra characters if you do not draw Bastion (or Master Mold and USB for that matter) and SASB (to a lesser extent).



Inaccurate analysis due to the nature of some cards involved. What does Common Enemy do with it's bad draws?


This is a bad generalisation. You are overstating the effect of putting cards in your deck without consideration to the probabilities involved with the actual numbers of those cards drawn during the course of a game.

I'm sorry, how does this sort of conclusion tie in with your arguments?

I went through my entire CE deck and I only found 3 useless cards, my 2 HABs and my Flame Trap. And if your opponent KNOWS you probably have cover fire, do you REALLY think they’ll attack a 12/12 with a 12/13 if you have cards in hand and about 3 other sentinels in play? Of course not.



I just described to you my first three games, I’m still playtesting. From those 3 games, I thought sentinels would do awesome, especially the last two because of my hand and field. Nope. I went back after that and played a fourth game. Everything was going even better, I had about 5 guys in hand to kill for Bastion, and 3 Tri Sentinels by turn 7. Then what happened? Unmasked and a 6 drop dr. doom. Since erick pointed out to me, bastion's effect isn't powering up as my opponent had told me it was, but i still only had 5 characters, most of which were not army. How doi fetch em back after using bastion?




When I used finishing moves, I was usually exhausting characters who wouldn’t attack that turn, like Boliver Trask. It was very effective, since in the end my opponent only had an 8 or 6 drop in play; too bad they still managed to win.





How? Most of the time CS will leave their hand mainly with other sentinels to be able to power up. So, what’s preventing me from playing my 6 drop doom and stopping you from using those Cover Fires and such you stuck in your resource row? What about Iceman on 6? I realize he won’t be able to hide, but what if it’s MY initiative?

Quote

Such an analysis is largely inaccurate due to the fact that it doesm't account for plot twists which tend to have a large impact on the game. Furthermore, it doesn't account for the probabilities involved with actually getting those characters into play on a perfect curve which something which favours Sentinels from turns 2-5 and Common Enemy from turns 6-8.

True, sentinels have more smaller characters than CE does. But sentinels are missing a tutor for their big guys, whereas CE has Faces of Doom and Signal Flare; both of which can be reused thanks to our doctor. What a lot of people don’t realize is that CE doesn’t need a perfect starting draw to win. I once missed my 2, 3, and 5 drop, while playing a FF deck running cars, which hit all their drops, and had 3 cars out. On turn 5, i was able to beat them down to only 2 characters left, with only a dr. doom and an invisible woman out.





Cover Fire won’t always be there all the time. I can search for my paralysis or distraction, but you can’t do the same for your cover fire. Sure, I had a game where I got FOUR cover fires out in my resource row, too bad dr. doom 6 drop came along. Then you have to factor in that your 2, and 3 drops will probably be gone by now, leaving only a 4, 5, and 6 drop, by turn 6 (if you don’t use base). That’s what, +4 DEF? What about when I stall out to get my Silver Surfer? I can always have initiative when I need it, and plan out the team attacks needed to take you down, cover fires or no cover fires. Even if you power up, you’re not always going to have that extra Tri Sentinel to play, or all those recon programs.





If those cards are present. They’re not always present, last I checked. In ability, Tri sent’s is better than CE’s, but I think I rather have the stats in that situation.





As I said before, unmasked can break you if played right. And reign can get rid of those smaller drops that would have fueled for cover fire. And even though it doesn’t seem like it, CE has a LOT of ways to draw. First, it’s got it’s team up. Then, we got our favorite guy, Boris, who should say: substitute this 1 drop for a plot. Then we got the 4 drop doom, who can reuse plots like Faces. In the end, CE can cycle through the deck a lot faster than CS could ever do.




Try to use them the best we can, like any other deck. What does CS do when it misses it’s beloved Bastion? Play a Mark V with boost?



Because if they did then it would allow them to be more aggressive, and it would make Boliver even better, since you can search out for your critical guys. Not to mention, it wouldn’t limit you to using only 4 Bastions in your deck if they’re so critical.

Why is there even a discussion on drawing extra cards? In this game card advantage hardly means anything.

Besides, using CE shouldn't be counted as an extra card since it's merely a replacement card. Neither should Boris, he loses you field advantage and in the end he only replaces one card as well. Dr. Doom can net you an extra card by reflipping CE, but that's the last move you should make since Flare, Faces, Paralysis, or Unmasked should be flipped instead.

:happily staying on the sidelines: