Allow a black man to protest one of the main problems with some of these things, and if they are seen as whining, the to hell with it.

Fact is, if something is so used more than anything else, then it becomes the main deck, and could end up being a problem. This is seen mostly in Yugioh where every winning deck is Chaos. In magic, you normally have 3 decks. the "best deck" and two decks that hose the "best deck". Even though this tournament format can give you multiple decks coming into their own, You generally see where the money is going.

Also, these types of decks and threads leads to others players doing nothing but ignoring ANY OTHER cards out there as being unplayable except cards that go in the "arsenal combo" or something like that. Not too long ago, I remember how many people said that The 7-drop Batman would never be playable because he was too small, and if he got into the range of other playable 7 drops, he'd be overload bait. Ben Seck changed people's ideas about that.

But maybe instead of 'whining', there should be constructive conversation of how something can be used. main reason this will never happen, is because whenever I post a thread like

"how can I effectively get my Riddler to work"

Some flaming idiot will flame the thread and say

"will you shut up and stop whining about that useless card!!"

there is absolutely NOTHING constructive about that. Unfortunately, the way the people ride the metagame wave, tend to push the wave in the same direction, but in a bigger force. somewhere along these lines, this game has to diversify. there are too many cards in this system that we can only use certain ones.

if you ever wanna discuss ways to make a card work, kilroy, feel free to drop me a line dude.

i'm always up to the challenge of figuring out how to make something work right!

and i agree that it is a shame that some people would rather dismiss anything else from being playable just because it is not already 'tier 1'.

i ahve seen so many great decks, and concepts over time that it blows my mind!

i've talked about my local kid jourdyn and his crazy decks, but they tend to work.

his puppet master deck, where he stalled a game out until turn 24....turn 24!!!

he also had a fire and ice people deck where all of his characters in the entire deck revolved around fire or ice powers...or at least their pictures on the cards did any way!

he even got a frankie raye on the table at the same time as a dar phoenix once!!

classic!

Batman always had the POTENTIAL to be a good card. Sadly, The riddler get's screwed on this one, and has nothing redeeming about his ability. This can be said for many, many cards that just have bad effects. For example, Focused blast has very limited potential... But I don't say their whining about this, that wasn't what I was saying at all. If you believe that is what I'm talking about I suggest re-reading my posts.

i'm not saying anything specifically about you or any one else, i was just speaking in general.

i disagree that riddler is just bad.

his effect is great, but it is harder to use than many others since he has below average stats.

but if we crack the code to the riddler, he could be game breaking.

His ability is amazing IF you people who wish to see beyond tier 1 actually try.

Theoretically, if your curve hits from turn 1 to turn three, and you actually make a successful Kidnapping on tunr 2, that would leave riddler available for use on turn 3. Deciding which card to discard to make your opponent drop is not that hard. against big bat it's a number between 4 and 6 (which means Ivy, Croc, Freeze or bane) against common enemy, it would be a lower number, or a number that he signal flared for. When you effectively get his ability to work they lose too many cards on that turn, and then on the next turn will forego attacking the 4 drop JUST to attack Riddler.

I've seen that too many times to believe that he is useless.

Every time I build a deck, I always look at all other plot twist possiblities. Some plot twists such as...

Breaking Story
Last Stand
and yes, even Men of Steel

I've seen used to great extents. I've discuss the Tier 1 mentality problem way too many times with Kilroy in the past in few other games. Its up to other players to stop the "nut-swinging" and to lose their fear of losing.

Creativity is where the enjoyment of a TCG comes from, you deny a TCG that, and it becomes lame quick.

Alright, let's say your playing 1 drops in AI. You hit Harley. Turn 2 your playing firefly, mad hatter or someone else. You stun their 2 drop (you also have evens) and kidnap it away. Turn 3 they play 3 drop and you play riddler, you put your 2 drop in front of him. IF they don't have flight riddler lives. IF they can't move the guy. Alright, lets say again your lucky and they can't get to him you gotta discard... a AI drop... hmmm. you got poison ivy, croc and bane... and a few plottwist. OOPS. You want to miss your curve? Alright let's say you also have a man bat, you chuck it, and they discard a 4 drop and miss their 4 next turn.

That has to be the most situational use of a card ever. That's like saying alicia masters is the best card in the game cuz you can play turn 3 Thing HH and big johnny storm.

I'd much rather drop nothing at 1, puppet master at 2, charaxes at 3. Since my build also runs locations, my backup 3 is penguin. No man's land is really awesome with cards like sucker punch. The asylum also works well, giving you card advantage (for your prison breaks) or helping you attack up the curve/beat a DEF pump. In short, riddler just doesn't cut it and his potential is severely limited. Cards that say "I win" are always potentially playable. Riddler does not do this.

Playing sub-par cards DOES NOT make you more creative. In a titans deck, if I run 4 cassie instead of garth to be creative, this doesn't make me more creative, this just makes me a non-conforming, pennyless hippy who thinks he's smart and creative for playing suboptimal cards. What I like most about this game is most cards have potential to be playable. Men of steel isn't one of these cards, it is one of the few that I'm nearly 100% sure will never be played to win money. Even if it does, it would be carried by the rest of the deck. Playing 4 Path to destruction over 4 beatdowns is statistically not better, at all. As even if you draw all 4 paths thats only 20 DMG, same as beatdowns. Breaking story has potential, as it's a card that perhaps has a great effect. Will it be played anytime soon? Most likely not. But perhaps in the future it can be a staple to many decks. Rigged elections was creative (though not all too good). People have to understand that your playing a game, a game whos purpose is to win. The point in playing this game is to have fun, but if you make the worst deck ever and lose every game that doesn't make you creative, it's just stupid. People who say they try to be creative just tend to be bad players who can't do well with good decks so they use it as an excuse.

There are exceptions to this rule, but maybe that's what I've seen in my experiences.

People who tend to be creative generally are players who wish to do something else except being mindless slaves to the metagame and win PCQ's with less than 25 people in it and brag about it in their sig

and for that example, You don't drop your Ivy, you drop Any other drop, and force them to choose. If I choose my Croc, do you drop your Garth? I don't think so. And you generally don't have a 6-drop, so you lose 2 cards if I drop Bane just because I say so.



Don't be so close minded. I've killed titan decks with riddler. You can only get so many cards back per turn with garth, and by then I'm coming at you.

um...Warran...hate to say it, but I try to be creative =)

Am I a bad player? ell *I* don't think so.

Am I a great player? I don't think so on that either.

But I do think of myself as creative.

It all depends on your goals in the game. I am primarily a casual player, so my goal isn't to win tournaments without taking a loss.

My goals is to build fun, wacky decks that is viable in competitive arenas.

So I have my burn variants, my Evasion variants, my Mojo variants...and now I'm working on a new, fun deck.

And hey, the results on them all have been pretty decent so far. =)

I agree. I refuse to let vs become another yugioh with everybody saying evry card other card is useless. Personally I think vs is a chance to play with your favorite comic book character and try to win with them. Like spiderfriends could use some work. But spidey one of my favorites so i use him.

Ps pray for a card that gives characters evasion.

EVERY CARD has potential, it just takes the right person to unlock it. most people said Arsenal was bad when he first came out becasue of the resource loss and the fact that he needed other characters to effectively use his ability. But people unlocked his POTENTIAL quickly.

People said that Batman stunk, a 7/7? that required massive amounts of card draw? then he'd be overload bait? you were probably one of them too, admit it. then someone wins with it, and you're on the jock strap, explaining why he's sooooo good. That's the basic gist of the status quo player/netdecker.

and The way I beat a big Bat deck:

between mad hatter and Riddler, my opponent had two cards in his hand at the end of turn 5. on turn 6, i play scarecrow with the boost and put everything back in his hand. on turn 7, I have massive control.

but that's just me......

My X-Men deck has a similar strategy. I based on of the decks strategies on the fact you often read...

"As an additional cost, discard a card"
OR
"As an additional cost, discard a X character card from your hand"

If you have nothing in your hand, you can't play many BIG cards, such as Signal Flare, HaB, the new Weapon of Choice, Flame Trap, and many others.

Most people thought that X-Men would be nothing more than a let down, but the truly devoted unlock fresher, and sometimes better strategies.

the best part about the discard, is when they miss their drop...........

missing drops = suck

so krazy may not be as krazy as he first appears...

and warran - i like the irony in your initial 'whining about whining' post. i must disagree with your creativity stance. it is the good, strong, creative deckbuilders that unlock more tier 1 decks. if not for them, most people might still be playing brotherhood.

plus, Dave Humphreys already alluded to the fact that there are characters/deck builds that potentially aren't being utilized to their full potential (Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Secret Deck Build found in Atlantis!!). Could this just be a ploy to get us using different cards even if there are no stronger deck builds in the current environment? Perhaps. But it sure gets me thinking even more outside the box. And overall that is healthy for the game.