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Originally posted by Unmask
I'm using Harper's ability <<IN RESPONSE>> to my opponent recuriting Boris. Boris is still coming into play and I want to know if that is a legal target for stunning.
Originally posted by erick I stand corrected. I just wish the CR was more consistent regarding terminology:
301.2 A player may recruit a character card only during his or her recruit step (See rule 404.) and only when the chain is empty. This is also called "recruiting a character."
301.3 A player recruits a character by following the applicable steps for playing effects. (See rule 505.)
301.4 The character card represents the recruit effect on the chain. Resolving a recruit effect follows the rules for resolving recruit effects. (See rule 508.3.)
As the recruit effect resolves, the character card is put from the chain into play in the player's front or support row. It is then an object with type character.
505.1e After the above steps are completed, the effect becomes played. If the effect is a recruit effect, the character or equipment also becomes recruited.
Notice the difference between 'character' and 'character card'. Many effects make a distinct difference between the two but recruitment seems to blur it a little. The way I interpreted it (without 505.1e) is that I have recruited a character card since a character card does not become a character until it is in-play. Once the recruit resolves, then I have recruited a character (by 301.4, after it becomes a character). But, it seems that 'recruiting a character' and 'recruiting a character card' are synonymous.
While a "character [object]" and a character card are two different things (rules make that distinction clear), we feel that we can cut a couple of corners by defining the same event of "taking a vs. card that is a character and trying to put it into play" differently in the rules then in templaing. I'll try to explain the terminology below.
301.2 A player may recruit a character card only during his or her recruit step (See rule 404.) and only when the chain is empty. This is also called "recruiting a character."
You have to call the card in hand a character card to be accurate, however card templating never refers to this event as recruiting a character card -- and always as recruiting a character. (for example "Play only if you recruited Doom this turn" and not "Play only if you recruited a character card named Doom this turn")
So 301.2 uses two different terminologies to link templating with actual rules. I basically says when a card talks about "recruiting a character" it means recruiting a character card during your recruit step.
301.3 A player recruits a character by following the applicable steps for playing effects. (See rule 505.)
301.2 told you what the event is called as templating sees is. 301.3 tells you how to make that event happen.
301.4 The character card represents the recruit effect on the chain. Resolving a recruit effect follows the rules for resolving recruit effects. (See rule 508.3.)
As the recruit effect resolves, the character card is put from the chain into play in the player's front or support row. It is then an object with type character.
301.4 is trying to refer to the actual physical thing (can't use the term object in explanation since it has different meaning) on the chain. Since it's not in play you can't call it a "character [object]" on the chain. So you have to call it what it is -- a character card.
301.4 then goes on to spell out exactly when this character card becomes a character [object].
505.1e After the above steps are completed, the effect becomes played. If the effect is a recruit effect, the character or equipment also becomes recruited.
505.1e explains that once all the "how to play an effect" steps are done the character becomes recruited. Once again, you can't use "character card becomes recruited," since templating looks for "recruiting characters" (which is okay since 301.2 tells you that those two are different interpretations of the same event [one from templating - one from rules])
Notice that 505.1e happens before the second part of 301.4 (that's why reign of terror trick works with doom still on the chain).
In general, the reason we do this in the rules is that one, it saves us room in the text box ("...recruited Doom..." vs "...recruited a character card named Doom...") at the expense of being a very minor point most players do not need to understand to play the game.
Interesting, and I never considered the exact timing of when a character is considered "recruited" before (in order for the Doom and Reign of Terror trick above to work).
Thanks for the detailed explanation Alex! I love reading stuff like that.
Originally posted by alex_charsky In general, the reason we do this in the rules is that one, it saves us room in the text box ("...recruited Doom..." vs "...recruited a character card named Doom...") at the expense of being a very minor point most players do not need to understand to play the game.
Alex
Great explanation.
I understand the reasoning but what is counter-intuitive is the fact that effects don't usually "happen" until the effect resolves.
I know that it's really about "playing the recruit effect" vs "resolving the recruit effect" but quite a few players don't consider a recruit as legal until it resolves.
It's just one of those nuances that need to be made more clear (like while a character is attacking, it is considered to "have attacked" even if the attack is still ongoing).
Templating game rules and using the english language is not an easy task.