Is that like a pearl necklace, or a thin white rope?

I was actually going to say something like this if I ever responded to this thread (which I didn't plan to do).

But I have never seen Stu this angry. Bad day at school?

Oh, and I don't think he's looking for praise, and I don't think he needs praise for doing the right thing. But there is something to be said for positive reinforcement.

Pro Circuit withdrawal. Be careful if you ever go to one of those things, they are addictive.

I faced a similar situation at the Pro Circuit. At PCNY, my opponent (who has top 8ed a PC since) forgot to flip something down with 4-drop Doom. After his opportunity had passed, I read it to make sure it was a may and that there was no error in the gamestate. However, he called a judge and was able to back the gamestate up to when he played the Doom because we had not acknowledged the choice presented to him by the card. He was able to flip down a card, but not before the Charsky, head judge at the time, verified and upheld the ruling (as I was reasonably skeptical about it).

With this precedent in mind, I have been taking greater notice of "may" effects and at the PC pointed out to my opponents at least once a game the Songbird trigger at the beginning of the build phase, asking if they had any responses with the effect on the chain. I am still unsure as to whether it is necessary and apparently surprised some opponents in doing so, but then again, I never lost to it either.

As a judge who frequently runs PCQs I would be happy to see more players preventing infractions rather than taking advantage of them, but I must admit that I would have a difficult time distinguishing between a player who accidentally allowed the second Sage use to resolve and a player who trapped his opponent into drawing extra cards. Since not everyone thinks like Kant, I hope that the dual-warning system is enough to dissuade people from letting the gamestate progress in error.

so i suck at typing , that's rather obvious.


stu dont make me go on about u .its hard for me to type on a laptop ok.and the basic idea of my post was easy to get regardless of my horrid typing.

To clarify... I don't believe Niles would not have won that match had he let his opponent Sage it up again and then called a judge on him.

The penalty would most likely not have been a game loss. Both players would have been given a warning and either the gamestate would have been backed up, with Niles seeing the cards drawn or it would have continued as is. This is of couse would have been determined by the judges and at this level... I just don't see issuing a game loss as the fairest solution.

And for those of you who don't know Niles... I don't think he's serious about this at all... he just likes to poke at VSRealms once in a while... to quote him profusely:

"GG Niles... a blowout... obv."

Niles, obviously, Quang played the superior deck :p

Just accept it.

On another note, Niles: Sinister Six + Fantastic Four team-up for the next PC?

;)

absolutly pat.

to two not one ofcourse.

when i typed this thing up i was fairly serious. i knew the responses would be preaty much what i have received. i guess what i was trying to point out, was that all pro players are not scumbags who would try to screw their opponent over to get a match win. i've never understood the people who wanted accolades for something they were supposed to do anyway(i used to watch alot of maury povich, and every other topic was about taking care of yo baby's mama). with that being said, i think rian was right that maybe i was trying to get a few demons off of my chest in regards to that quarterfinals match. i was realy upset after the third game had concluded and i acted a bit donkish with the ude staff. for that i am sorry, and will apologize when i see them again in person.

wait, isnt it the Fearsome Five? don't forget about big jim.

lol funny #### but niles you did the right thing...

The way I see it, while both players are responsible for the game's state, the player who controls the card generating the effect has a greater responsibility to use the effect correctly (because they should know what is going on with their own cards). In the situation, you can not give both players identical penalties. At this level, mistakes should not really happen, but it is a repairable gamestate so just the opponent should get a warning (otherwise team mates could theoretically conspire to hit the same opponent twice on the same thing thus upgrading the warning despite them being at fault). I do most of my thinking during my opponent's turn and would be very dissapointed if I got a warning because my opponent did something wrong whilst I was thinking how to beat him.

As for Declaring the use of Sage and waiting for the judge, reporter and you to respond (without asking if he'd already used it), this is undoubtably suspicious.

I actually had a similar situation to this happen to me at Magic Nats last year where I told my opponent when he was about to mulligan illegally. He thanked me and then berrated me for telling him. He said that if your opponent is going to make a mistake like that, you should let them. They did make the mistake after all. You shouldn't have to tell them. I don't agree with this, but after losing many games to opponents who make obvious play mistakes, while I didn't (not obvious ones anyway), I can understand this thinking.

The player not making the mistake can not be proven to have known about it and therefore should not be penalised (even if they knew). If however they admit it (in front of enough people) later in the tournament, they should be DQ'ed for cheating.

This is deffinitely an interesting situation, and while I agree with and applaud Niles' decision, I could understand him going the other way (just not admitting it).

Think of this thread as a rhetorical question:
Would you have done the same?
What is the role of ethics in this game?
Should you have to stop your opponent from doing something wrong when a judge is sitting there?

Without starting an arguement:

that's not what the rules say.

Normally I don't feed the trolls, but I don't want Stu to blow any more gaskets on my behalf.

I don't know who you are, I don't know where you are from. All I know about you is that you obviously woke up on the wrong side of the Iron-Maiden today, and you are looking to take it out on the nice folks who frequent these forums.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here. Far from it, actually. I just wish you would take your pills and be happy. If you don't have any pills of your own, they can probably be provided. :)

actually i must apologise for that i did wake up real early and am grumpy when i do .i shount have called u names.i just dont like being told to back off .anyways i will take some pills. :)