If by dividing factor or catalyst you mean first action taken in response to all those events happening, then yeah I agree. But they even state it in CW#1 that the Nitro blast was the last straw, more innocents than died in that than any of the other occurances.

Oh,I agree.I'm just saying as far as the first thing to split the illuminati down the middle would be Hulk,IMO

Hulk getting launched into space was a "humanitarian" step. Iron Man thought that if Hulk stayed he would be one of the first ones killed by the government for crimes agains Homosapiens. Some of the Illuminati agreed and some disagreed saying that it was a cruel thing to do just because his actions weren't looked upon as "good" actions. The New Warriors caused the government to take more immediate action on an issue that would have occured anyway. Spider-Man was bitten by a radioactive spider. It would be naive to think that his powers were static from the get go knowing how little we (in the real OR comic book world) know about radiation and its effects. But isn't it kinda stupid how in X3 Leech can take away Juggernaut's powers when they are magical in origin and not mutation based?
Now I'm a Spider-fan and don't really pay attention to the Hulk, but it seems they moved him "off-world" to show more of his personality. By placing him in an alien surrounding and giving him a new life, basically. Like in House of M Hulk where he becomes the leader of a nation. They try to show what depth his character has. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the majority of hulk's 40 year historical rampages occur in the desert near where the accident that created him happen? Not too many settlements of people. And the Avengers started their career battling the hulk. That's what brought them together in the first place. Cap brought hulk into the avenger's b/c he thought keeping him "under control" was better than letting him loose on the world.

It's also the first thing that's been shown. The Illuminati have been around for a lot longer than the first issue. They've just only started to tell their stories.

In X3 Juggernaut is a mutant.They did the same thing in X2 making Deathstrike a mutant.They don't allow non mutant superhumans.Hulk was a founding member of the Avengers from issue 1.They formed to stop Loki.Cap showed up in issue 4 I believe.Everything else is a valid opinion.

Well, you have the word of a psychiatrist or a drunk, I dont trust either haha. Anyway, I have always had the thought that maybe on a random occasion here and there Hulk could have killed someone by accident, but are you telling me that in all the battles with Doom or Galactus the FF have never accidentally killed someone, or that the X-Men, while battling Magneto or Apocalypse have not offed someone? It has to enter your mind at some point that it has happened, buildings, in the middle on NYC dont collapse withouy anyone in them.

On a side note, I saw people mentioning the new direction of comics. I must say it is terrible. I havent read a new comic book in about 4-5 years (other than Books of Doom, which is a great story). I think they are screwing up characters way too much. Whats up with this new look Spidey? or the X-Men having a realistic feel to the books? I blame the first X-Men movie for these major changes. As much as I loved that movie, it effected the books in a bad way, it has made them all too realistic looking and dark. I want Cyclops in his 1991 X-Men uniform and Spidey in his Blue and Red etc... I have seen more of an older feel more recently, but now stories just suck. I will not say everything is bad, I bought Civil War #1 and it was actually a decent story, so I will more than likely continue with that and see where it goes.

I agree in alot of ways I AM DOOM.There are some comics,like Fantastic Four,that both stay current and keep the same feel.Marvel is going in a direction that many feel is the wrong direction.Many blame Quesada,I really don't know if it's him or not.Too much is changing too fast.I'm about ready to cut everything except FF,Astonishing and Avengers,the flagships basically and say the heck with the rest.

I am of the opinions that comics have matured as a medium, and that the stories being told now are some of the finest ever produced. I don't want ridiculous characters and slapstick in my stories, I want characterization and realistic plotlines. Perfect example of great modern comics : The Ultimates. I don't know if there has ever been a comic this good, and I am comparing it to things like Watchmen. It is seriously that good.

And if you don't like the feel of modern comic, or suffer from the condition known as nostalgia, there are plenty of back stories for people to read. Me ? I like my stuff grim and gritty. And Planet Hulk is probably one of the best Hulk stories I've ever read ( probably the best ) . If you arn't reading it, you are missing out on something special.

I don't know what issue was the first to state that the Hulk's rampages had casualties but the incident Iron Man is talking about in Vegas was from a recent FF issue where Ben and Jonny tried to stop him including a nova blast and still could'nt stop him. Actuall this is where the ideal of sending the Hulk to space came from when Ben said it to Reed half joking half serious.
I don't have a problem with the Hulk's rampages having some accidental deaths but I realize the Hulk is not a superhero and never has been. He is a monster a unstoppable, uncontrollable monster. He's alot like Godzilla in that how many times has Godzilla leveled Tokoya, and how many people have been crushed and stomp on because of it, yet how many times has Godzilla saved the Earth from an alien invasion or other monsters. The Hulk is the same way he saves more lives than he takes, he's a force of nature like a tornado, hurricane, or earthquake. Just like there's nothing we can do to stop those disasters there's nothing that can be done to stop the Hulk, the Avengers once tried to kill the Hulk and with such power houses as Namor, Iron Man, Wonderman, Hercules, and Doc Samson combined got there asses kicked, Thor tried to stop him once at the north pole calling down all the lightning he could muster and going into the warrior madness and even the Army sending a nuke in the middle of the fight, and the Hulk walked away from it. So it's not like the heroes and the government have not tried to kill the Hulk before they just can't he's too powerful he can't be killed and can't be imprisoned so sending him away would be the best solution for them. But like Namor said he will find his way back and when he does there will be hell to pay.

It's not that the Hulk killed people, it's that people died as a cause of Hulk's rampages... He didn't kill those people intentionally, it was just a result of him going berserk (heck, you can blame those who caused Hulk to go berserk)...

That, to me, doesn't ruin the Hulk's character... He didn't suddenly turn into the Punisher who kills criminals...

Just for the record, it has been stated quite frequently throughout marvel comics prior to the "Planet Hulk" Incident that Hulk doesn't kill or cause the loss of life, as silly as that notion may be.

In She-Hulk volume 4, issue 4 Jennifer states so herself with absolute certainty that "The Hulk has never been responsible for the loss of innocent lives".

I'm not throwing in my hat either pro et contra regarding wether this kills Hulk's character or not, just saying that it was an established part of marvel continuity until Bendis casually threw it out the window in a rather effortless ret-con.

Yeah, I'll concede to that though... Whether it was more believable or not, Marvel seems to have set Hulk's reputation as having no casualties...

That's all I was saying.I've always been a Hulk fan,so I'm going to see how this pans out.As you can tell I hate the Ultimate universe.To me it's not that it's more realistic,but more sensationalistic and that's just not my type of comic,but I'm glad it's out there for those that it is.My fear is that Bendis is going to try and turn mainstream continuity more the way of Ultimate.I've been hearing serious reports they're concidering pulling a Crisis of sorts and merging the two.Oh,well.That's my piece.

You know what this reminds me of a story in one of the X-Men: Unlimited book. In it Marko wants to be a teacher and everyone is like "Nope, you crazy with rage". So then Wolverine give him three test. He fails the first two, but thrid test is what really shook up Marko. The test were in the Danger Room, so it showed all the people he hurted through fights with other people.

And in that What-if "What-if the Punisher Destroy the Marvel Universe". Remember that group of people that were injuried from super hero battles? Wasn't one of them brain dead from a Hulk incident? I gotta go and check up on that one.

But I guess what I'm trying to say is, like a few others, that people could get hurt without being known.:noid:

So who says what is innocent? And if he killed none innocent.