I think when the idea is mentioned that the game needs more casual players, they arn't talking about the type that would attend a PCQ. How many magic players do you know that would or have never attended a ptq, or regionals, or any dci santioned event asside from maybe a pre release?

I don't think changing the way tournaments are run is going to change the appeal of vs. at the dinner table.

Also, if the pro's are able to play at the PCQ with something simmilar to the decks they are testing, so they can actually get a feel for how they'll play in the meta, that seems like it will encourage pro's to attend. The fact that the format for pc thats coming up is diffrent than the format for the pcqs would make gauntlet testing for the next pc more important to those who are already qualified than playtesting for an upcoming pcq.

true dat - I went undefeated with that deck in a PCQ, and ruled the hobby league for a month - It was teh nutz for that format.

I actually am talking about casual players when it comes to PCQ's. I think giving them a better chance at PCQ's and knowing that the next PC will be the same format as the PCQ they attended will make more casual, dinner-table players interested in attending.

They also won't have to scramble to make a second deck for a whole new format after they spent hard cash on the deck that got them qualified in the first place. That's certainly more casual player friendly.

I'm also not against the idea of pros showing up to these events. If they do, they run the risk of bringing a gauntlet deck to the smaller event and it also gives other peple the chance to tech against it and better yet, it gives them an idea of what it takes to compete at high level.

I'm not saying your points are garbage, I'm just giving my two cents.

If no pros show up with their big decks then that'll be great because it'll give casual players a better chance at decks that people have already seen. The main thing is that you won't have to qualify for a Golden Age PCQ and then turn around and prepare for a Silver Age metagame you have no experience in.

Again, not trying to put people down here. Everyone has good opinions.

Someone brings this up every PC. I think my turn was three or four PCs ago. :)

So yeah, I agree. Also gives more time to find and ban broken combos before the PC.

Well, see we don't NEED more casual players going to PCQ's. We need more casual players buying cards, where and how they play with them is their buisness. Again I envoke the success of magic.

For every tournament magic player there are 10 more that only play at home in weird formats or big elaborate team games with their closest friends. The same is not true of vs. The casual magic players pretty much pay for the game, so that the tournament magic players can continue to play. The more money UDE makes on VS the more support it will get. If anything, what we need are more people attending hobby leauges instead of more people attending PCQ's.

It's not about getting existing casual players to play at a competitve level. It's about getting more casual players. The reason we need more players, casual or competitive is to move more product so that UDE continues to make money and thus support VS. Most competitive players I know are tight wides who want to make money, not spend it, thus more casual players is a good thing! The yughio players in my area(springfield ohio), atleast twice the size of the VS community, but we're closing that gap every day, by convincing new players to try our our game. The sales pitch doesn't have to be, you can go to the pro circuit and win 40 thousand dollars. It can just be, you can play this with your friends and have a lot of fun.

Beyond that, if your a casual player, why would you care about winning a PCQ anyway? The point of a PCQ is to qualify for the pro circuit. Congratulations, your now on the pro circuit. Man, if you thought winning that PCQ took a lot of work, now try and make day 2 at the PC. A casual VS player isn't going to do much more than scrub out after the 3rd round in a PC and go play WOW the rest of the day anyway.*exceptions to this rule, Adam Prozac, Dave Spears, Keebler Powell(miss you man, you should call sometime) and Stu Barnes :-P*

I'm a casual VS player who is friends with a lot of competitive VS players, and has tried to bve a competitve vs player myself. I have more fuin playing league of assassins than high voltage. I haven't attended a PCQ since origins '05. I wouldn't mind trying to play competitvely again, but I just don't have the time. That doesn't stop me from going to the shop 3 nights a week and playing a few games with my friends.

Now if your a casual player and are just trying to break into the pro circuit, saying that you can't play competitvely becuase everyone else has more time to test than you is a very poor argument. No matter the rotation of sets, the people with more time to play test are going to have the competive edge. Kia and Vidi and all the other TCG greats didn't get to be good by not having time to playtest.

Understand that this isn't to discourage anyone from trying to play competitvely. Thats certianly not my goal with this statement. I'm just pointing out that it's going to be an uphill battle, and even more so when you don't have time to test and prepare. Changing the order of tournaments will not change that fact.

*climbs off soap box* Thank you and good night

probaly the best poing yet. time to find and ban broken combos. no last minnute crap. it addition pcs last would just be sooooo much more player friendly.

Let me suggest a solution to your particular difficulty with just some time management. If you and your friends do your testing right now for silver, even if you aren't planning on going to the silver PC, you'll have the bulk of your testing out of the way before the silver age pcq formats starts. You'll just need to adjust your gauntlet a little for any suprising that come out of the PC. Then when silver is the PQ format, you can be prepairing for modern, while going to silver PCQ's. Again, even if your not going to the PC, this will free you up to do golden age testing, during the modern PCQ season, thus allowing you to have your golden age deck pinned down and tuned well in advance of the PC. You just have to use some thought and planning in how you spend your pre-pc prep time.

By the time the next PC rolls around if your still tweaking your pcq deck, something is defiantly wrong with the way you prepair. Playing a game with your pcq deck regularly inorder to keep you sharp with it is a needed thing, but if you get a dozen games in a week, spending 2 or 3 of them on your pcq deck should leave you with enough testing of your PC meta choice to atleast be familiar with the format, and the deck you've chosen to pilot in it. Especially now that we can expect roughly 4 months between each pc.

i dont think that works too well. most people do like to focus on the format going on a little more and not be so distracted. it just seems to be better suited for a lot of people if the pcs were last so testing isnt quite as hectic. a lot of time u have a new set to try to see if u have any last minnut changes to your deck also. but all and all if they were last it would give people more time to be comfortable with their deck choices, after all your playing for 40k you want to be comfortable with your choices.

WTF...
I never said that a pro is going to bring his deck to a pcq. I said The pros wont bring them. I was agreeing with you and you yell at me. Come on.

Pros dont need to go to pcq anyway. They have the point. If they want to play for the money then i guess thats a reason. But if i pro brings a deck like titans then you can test against a good VS player. If i bring a deck to a pcq with alot of pros and i win it tells me that the deck is good against those deck. Then all i need to do is tech against certain match ups. Pro will go to a pcq with good deck that you will see at the PC but you wont see them playing those decks at the PC. The idea is a good idea. It gives Pro an advantage, they can see the decks they need to tech against. Its just more time for the pro and more time for the other players. Plus you cant just net deck the PC winning deck.

i tell you what, i have little motivation right now to play in constructed PCQs because i know i'm going to face 4-6 rounds of netdecked top 8 decks from the last PC. if the PCQ's come before the PC for that format, it will encourage greater diversity in the PCQ meta b/c people won't have the top 8 decklists to put together, they'll have to bring their own thing. it woudl REALLY help out the PCQs from stagnating.

You think people won't net deck just becuase the PC hasn't happened? Besides that, if ewveryone is net deckign, then you know what they're playing and should have an advantage in beating them.

Net Decking is inevitable and only makes it easier for those who are creative to win by thinking outside the box.

While this is the theory behind it, it's not why a lot of people attend.

I have no intention of ever playing in a Pro Circuit event. But I went to my first PCQ in October. I didn't go for the PC point, I went because I wanted a) new people to play with(the only hobby league here is quite a bit of a drive, and timing with work makes it just about impossible to attend anyway), b) a slightly competitive but not overly crazy environment, and c) some prizes.

When I first started reading up on the OP system, I found the local PCQ. "You mean I get to pay a few bucks, play VS with a bunch of new people, and possibly walk away with money or a bunch of packs of cards? Sign me up!" I didn't think, "Sweet, if I finish well enough here, I can take vacation time from work, save up a bunch of money, and take an expensive trip to California just to lose 10 games of VS!" Sure enough, I placed 7th, walked away with my pulls, 6 packs of Heralds and a deck tin, and was more than satisfied.

Anyway, back to the topic of the thread, I agree with ending a format with the PC. Ending the format with the PC makes testing easier for people with less time, and in the end, just makes sense. If I win a Silver age PCQ, why should I be qualified to enter a Modern age PC? The World Series analogy earlier is pretty accurate.

However, since I'm casual and don't want to attend a PC(partly due to the format structure, but there are bigger reasons) then my opinion doesn't really count.

As much as people like to innovate, this is so true. There will be a few decks that will be tweaked to beat the meta or a different deck that rises as the better deck in the format but a mystery meta does help attendance.

Back before the different formats, PCQ Constructed had quite a few players because everyone kept building different things, and new sets just made it more interesting.

QFT. and repped.