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He also appeared in the Superman Aquaman Adventure Hour (or whatever), and has appeared in JLA books as well as Aquaman. He is also for Aquaman at least a major catalyst having Killed Aquaman's son. This guys a player and more folks would know him than 20 other villains I could list who have already been printed.
No they wouldn't. This guy is may have been a big deal way back when, but he has had no relevance in the DCU for the last 20 years.
To put it another way, if Namor from Marvel Legends and this guy had their card text switched it would make more sense. Namor was important in Civil War and has had a couple of mini-series in recent years, but they made Namor's ability once per game, and this guy is repeatable, ensuring that Namor will rarely see play and Black Manta will be splashed into a few decks.
Quote : Originally Posted by Batshido
Without looking it up, can you name more than 6 members of the Secret Society? (I don't really want a demonstration, as this is the internet and we have no way of proving or disproving it one way or another. This is meant as an exercise to show the lack of name recognition on the team.) It's not like it's a team full of mainstream powerhouses.
To the average person on the street Talia, Black Adam, Dr. Psycho, The Calculator, Grodd, it's just a list of wierd names. They've got no point of reference for any of that, so using the "normal people won't know this guy" argument pretty much falls apart.
As to the idea that comic book readers might not know who he is, how many people remember The Calculator as a costumed bad guy? What about Dr. Psycho as anything other than a punchline? At least Black Manta got some air time on a cartoon back in the day and might be borderline recognizable. Add to that the fact that he is THE ETERNAL NEMESIS OF ONE OF THE FOUNDING MEMBERS OF THE JUSTICE LEAGUE, and he's probably a decent choice for this card.
As someone who has been reading comics for the 10 years, yes I can name you 10 people out of SS (who all have shown up in multiple comics and done relevant acts of villainy). So can a lot of people who read comics.
I don't want to keep arguing the point but all I am saying is that I see this as another Garth. Great ability, the character and the ability match completely but this should have been used on another character.
I don't want to keep arguing the point but all I am saying is that I see this as another Garth. Great ability, the character and the ability match completely but this should have been used on another character.
Who would have been a better candidate?
Namor fails as he is not a member of the Secret Society or an inhabitant of the DCU.
Namor fails as he is not a member of the Secret Society or an inhabitant of the DCU.
No, that is exactly what I am saying. If they had given this ability to Namor, and Namor's ability to him, the effects would have been still okay thematically as well as matching up character popularity to card power.
As someone who has been reading comics for the 10 years, yes I can name you 10 people out of SS (who all have shown up in multiple comics and done relevant acts of villainy). So can a lot of people who read comics.
No, that is exactly what I am saying. If they had given this ability to Namor, and Namor's ability to him, the effects would have been still okay thematically as well as matching up character popularity to card power.
Are you not getting that this power fits the Secret Society of Supervillains better than it fits any team that Namor is a part of?
People are happy because this card (regardless of the character it goes on) belongs with this team. And they put it on the most appropriate character on the team.
It's really very simple.
And Batshido's Google Fight post pretty much ends the debate about his popularity anyway.
And the results are skewed, because an actual google search on Black Manta, aside from bringing up the DC character, reference the animal, the government plane, the cruise, and the video game (and that's just on the front page).
And the results are skewed, because an actual google search on Black Manta, aside from bringing up the DC character, reference the animal, the government plane, the cruise, and the video game (and that's just on the front page).
Even with my results being admittedly skewed, they weren't skewed nearly as much as these. There isn't a reference to these characters on the first page of either of their respective google searches.
Quote : Originally Posted by Dragavon
however, these next two beat Black Manta and cannot be confused with other things.
And those guys are candidates for this ability how, again? KO'd pile recovery is pretty much universally "Aqua" stamped. Are we freezing the ocean and drilling down to it? Or Omega-Beaming the water away?
And the results are skewed, because an actual google search on Black Manta, aside from bringing up the DC character, reference the animal, the government plane, the cruise, and the video game (and that's just on the front page).
I'm still waiting to hear which member of the Secret Society would have been a better fit for this card.
If it helps, here's a pretty comprehnsive list:
Abra Kadabra
Amazo
Amos Fortune
Angle Man
Atomic Skull II
Bizarro
Black Adam
Black Manta
Black Mask
Black Spider
Blockbuster I
Blockbuster II
Body Doubles
Bolt
Brain Wave I
Brutale
Bug & Byte
(The) Calculator
Captain Boomerang I
Captain Boomerang II
Captain Cold
Captain Nazi
Captain Stingaree
Chain Lightning
Charaxes
Cheetah II
Cheetah III
Chemo
Cheshire
Chronos I
Cicada
Clayface I
Copperhead
Count Vertigo
Crazy Quilt
Crime Doctor
Cutthroat
Darkseid
Deadshot
Deathstroke
Double Dare
Dr. Hugo Strange
Dr. Polaris
Dr. Psycho
Effigy
Fadeaway Man
Fatality
Faust
Felix Faust
Floronic Man
Funky Flashman
Gemini
(The) General
Gentleman Ghost
Giganta
Girder
Gorilla Grodd
Goth
Hammer
Harley Quinn
Heat Wave I
Hector Hammond
Hellhound
Hi-Jack
Humpty Dumpty
Hyena
Killer Croc
Killer Frost I
Killer Frost II
Killer Moth I
King Shark
Knockout
Lex Luthor
Lex Luthor (imposter)
Manhunter IV
Matter Master
Mirror Master I
Mist I
Monocle
Monsieur Mallah
Mr. Freeze
Mr. Terrible
Multiplex
Parasite
Penguin
Per Degaton
Phobia
Plasmus
Poison Ivy
Prometheus
Psycho-Pirate II
Quakemaster
Queen Bee II
Rag Doll
Rancor
Reverse Flash
Riddler
Ruin
Sabbac II
Scarecrow
Scorch
Shadow Thief
Shrapnel
Sickle
Signalman
Silver Banshee II
Silver Ghost
Sinestro
Sivana
Sizematic
Skorpio
Sledge
Solomon Grundy
Star Sapphire IV
Sting
Talia
Torpedo-Man
Toyman I
Trickster I
Twiddle Dee
Twiddle Dum
Übermensch
Ultra-Humanite
Vault
Virtuoso
Warp
Weather Wizard
Wizard
Zoom
Zsasz
So, using that same "Fight" system, Namor beats Black Manta, but Aquaman pounds the stuffing out of Namor. So, by virtue, an Aquaman villain deserves it more in this set, if they're putting the old abilities on bad guys.