I made my IG Beats deck with about a box and a half of boosters and some trades for the CSAs. It's an incredibly cheap deck to build.

And that's why I wrote personally before I made my comment. IMHO he's the cream of the crop that still actively posts here so I value his perspective most. Especially since when he does post it's not self-gratifying like some or UDE-loathing like most and lastly stUDE favorable like Rian.

CC

Also, yeah, all Skrull decks I saw (and faced) played Skeee. The Moloids(Spooky's Deck) did play The-Uni Power.

Also, TDB, it's Josh, JTK doesn't know how to do VsRealms stuff.

I never thought I would say this but I agree with Stu....damn...now I feel dirty.

You say that both Modern and Silver formats are boring and will be boring when World's comes along. So what do you want UDE to do about this? If this is such a big problem for you then add your own suggestions into it.

As for the skill level of the competition at World's, you think that there will be a few really good players and then the rest will pretty much be scrubs? How is this at all different from the PCs? Every single PC had the same players give or take in the top 8 so how are World's going to be any different?

Again no one seems to get what I'm saying

If its okay with you RocketGurl, I would like to discuss your original questions.

1)No, I don't think the decks are just that powerful. I've only been playing VS for a year and a half, but I consider myself a pretty good deckbuilder considering I've been to four UDE sanctioned tournaments (Random Punks, Alter Ego, World's Finest Release, Build-a-Legend) and a GA Constructed, and have never lost a single match. And in my opinion, there are a lot of things in the current meta that stand a chance against the Tier 1 decks. Now, that being said, they are Teir 1 for a reason. But I think (and have seen) things like Marvel Defenders and the massively overlooked Birds of Prey outshine Fate Suits and Punisher abuse.

2)No, IJ Concealed is not as good as it would appear to be by that statistic. When it hits everything, it has a lot of punch, but their are two conditions on which it can be beaten pretty consistently: WELL TIMED hidden hate (i.e. Skree), and a slight misdraw by the IJ player which results in much direct attacking. That's just what I've seen in the times that I've played against it.

3)This is a much harder question to answer. On one hand, we've seen a rush of kitchen-table-jockies piloting creative decks in recent VS outings, largely based on the revival of good clean fun in the game by UDE (think MCG and DCX). But on the other hand, the thought of being the VS World Champion will probably draw a lot of hard core players to play Arabic Kings or KOing Machines. But I'm still thinking a good original deck or two will find its way down the yellow brick road of the world tournament.

Umm, he didn't say that at all. He was mainly raising questions. If the format is Silver Age, will it be dominated by a few decks and a few really good cards (Ahmed, Punisher, Deadshot)? Or, if the format is Modern, will it be dominated by IG Hidden? (I would have added "and by control/stall decks designed to beat it.") If so, either way, Worlds would be fairly uninteresting.

I think those are relevant questions to be asking right now, and a fair statement. He was starting a conversation, not inciting a hatefest.

Does no one realize I'm a sack? LOL Ahmed isn't broken unless they miss drops. Guess what happened to me 12 times? :)

No, we didn't get what you MEANT to say.

I even said it in my post, that I was letting you know what your posted reads like from the perspective of someone that didn't write it themselves. And other people are seeing the same thing.

It isn't putting words in your mouth ... but it is a failure of you getting your intended words into our ears ... [to take a metaphor a few steps farther].

Hmmm. I would say that several people read certain things in his original post as statements that were actually questions. Lord knows, Ludin has had plenty of sarcastic/cynical/critical posts on this board. That wasn't one of them.

And, of course, by the time Meltdown is actually reprinted, the "need" for it would probably be rotating into Golden only anyway.

Rise from the Grave wasn't an issue of players having influence.

It was a matter of players taking a card and pointing out what the card text ACTUALLY meant, and then the people that designed the card changing the card text so it did what they intended.

This had nothing to do with players having an outcry over card balance.

Dr. Light, Overload and Frankie Raye <> Nova were some of the few examples of players petitioning for a card to be dealt with. There were a few others, but they ammounted to either:

(a) A situation like Rise From the Grave or Clocktower or Stilt Man, where the players have shown an example of what the cards are capable of, and the card designers have errata'd the cards to work as originally intended.

(b) The other situation were things that created infinite combos ... for example the stuff involving Moloids and Gone But Not Forgotten and Mr. Fantastic and Decoy Program [and Devil's Due, etc].

There have been a few "extra" bans or erratas that were outside the box. Those were stuff that isntead of errata'ing a card to work as intending, or banning a card that is part of an infinite combo that can't be stopped with a simple errata [using their own 'rules' for what warrants an errata]. Those have been to specifically change the "direction" of the game.

Overload: They wanted the game to open up and be about combat again. The "fear of attacking or you might get stunned" had pushed the format towards Sentinels, Titans and Evil Medical School. And between Dr. Light, Roy Harper and Overload ... it was ultimately three DIFFERENT ways to stun your opponent directly as a way to control your opponent.

Dr. Light was causing a limit on the power level of smaller characters, and any environment he was in, it became an elaborate game of working with and around him.

The big purge with all the Heralds 1-drops was a mix of the two. Detective Chimp, for example, didn't exactly have anything breaking him, but that may have been an example of advance planning. With a card like Mobilize on the horizon, Detective Chimp was supporting the "Enemy Era" [Nenora to a lesser extent].

Vs. is hardly the only game that has used errata or banning. Cards have not been erratad because of power level ... they were obviously doing something that wasn't intended. Biz World wasn't even an errata ... it was a rules clarification covering a grey area in the rules [they didn't have a rule about a character being multiple people because at the time ... they didn't have an effect that did that].

True ... however, more people loved Roy Harper because of how powerful the Titans deck was then it was people that were fans of the Roy Harper character. Even now, his new 3-drop is still quite powerful, just not to the point where people playing a Teen Titans deck would NOT be including a copy of their favorite Titan characters [Random Example: Raven] because the "way to play" the deck is only one way.

Ultimately, the person that is playing the "Negative Play Experience" is going to enjoy piloting the deck [otherwise they were only playing the deck because of how good it was, in which case the metagame is REALLY bad] while it's the person playing against it that doesn't.

The better group is probably the larger group. The louder group is not necessarily the case ... the "quiet ones" are likely the ones that will leave without making a peep if the game isn't fun for them anymore ... while those that complain the loudest will probably stick with the game to the end.

By the same token the "fickle casual" that will leave at the drop of the hat, is probably only a small drop in the bucket as far as sales are concerned, while those that are more vocal are also those that are likely putting more money into the game [which is part of the reason they are more vocal].

I don't agree with Ludin.

Chicago was the first real snapshot of the meta since Bizarro AM BROKEN. I've talked to Patrick about the Silver tourney and he never once said "This format is boring". In fact, he was surprised by the amount of different decks in the meta and that there were still ideas out there that could be explored.

Isn't that what the top 8 is about? Even if a deck dominates the Swiss due to matchups and one-game matches, the top 8 is supposed to expose the weaknesses of certain decks in best 2of3 matches.

Just because IG Hidden took the top spot by no means proves that the Silver meta will be dominated by a budget deck... it just means that more people will have to tech for that particular type of deck.

I still think Silver is a very diverse meta and we still haven't seen the end of where it will be. Think about it... it's been over 3 months of Silver Age and not a single person can correctly guess what the meta is going to be. It's one of the reasons it's so hard to build for... because you never know what's gonna show up even though you think it will be Fate/Ahmed/Rush/DS+GK dominated. I don't know where people are getting the idea that it's a broken/boring/degenerate format. Especially compared to Golden Age.

As for Modern... it's still too limited. Is anyone surprised that it's dominated by a few deck types? You don't want to use that format for Worlds... ever. Since Worlds is our only big event now... keep it as diverse as possible, which means Silver.

We aren't ignoring the question marks.

It just seems that they are conveniently worded statements that have been transformed by the magic of punctuation into leading questions, bordering on rhetorical.

1) Why was the top 8 meta so boring?

2) Why was the overall meta so boring?

3) Since they were both so boring, will World's be boring as well?

P.S. Ludin post things purposely in that manner to get people riled up. He really doesn't actually fully believe what he's saying... he's not that stupid... well... supposedly.

He sure does get defensive though when he gets called on it ... especially when it's Stu, who has admitted to doing similar things.

You'd think that amateur provocateurs would at least be able to recognize each others work or what they are.

For the record, Checkmate/Punisher was the best deck in Chicago. Tim just missed Punisher somehow and lost because his Defensive Formations were dead.