The Chocolate Factory
Card Type: Location
Cost: 3
Play only if you control a Charlie Bucket or Willy Wonka.

Activate--> Put a Candy counter on a character you control.

Characters with a Candy counter have "Activate--> Remove X Candy counters from this character. Draw X Cards from the bottom of your deck."

I would totally make a Charlie and the Chocolate Factory expansion. I mean, Roald Dahl has such a huge fan base!

Yes

If new IP contracts are established with comic book publishing companies that don't require as much overhead as do Marvel/DC, then why would'nt I expect VS to make more money through those agreements.

Future sight is a wonderful thing - as I said before: who would have thought that Mickey Mouse and crew shooting fireballs would ever make for a great video game. Walt never envisioned it I bet and yet here we are.

Less overhead is less overhead so you start out with the greater chance of turning a profit.

The answer is simple... way more people (read: kids) played Pokemon... even at it's lowest point... than VS... at its highest point.

Pokemon survived not only moving from WotC to Nintendo... but they even reset the whole game and made all the WotC cards invalid to play... years worth of cards... and they still do well.

VS will probably never be a mass product like Pokemon... that's part engine, part marketing, part IP. The best to hope for is a niche game like Vampire or any AEG/Fantasy Flight games... but I don't know if UDE is interested in supporting a game with that level of consumerism. This is probably their main impetus behind not making any type of announcement because we've always speculated that they want to see how MEV sales are before they go forward with any decision.

And honestly... the TCG market is not a great one. Sales are down in all categories so marginal products just don't provide a great incentive to continue them. Even the big guys are seeing hits saleswise.

It's funny because this should be a chat session rather than posts on a thread but there is a difference:

Micky Mouse has universal appeal. While the same can be said about Dracula, Frakenstein and what have you... they are less universal than Micky Mouse.

While the IP plays a huge factor... for the comic book crowd, anything other than Marvel/DC is a reduction... we saw that with no DC set already. I can probably say with conviction that the current player base for VS does not support the IP licensing costs for Marvel/DC. So even if that overhead were to be reduced... the profit margin may still not be high enough to make it a viable financial decision for a big company to continue with.

I think even if UDE were to acquire FREE comic book licenses, the production and R&D costs alone are still prohibitive. Booster pack/box manufacturing is pretty high... at least domestically. You can do it much cheaper elsewhere but you lose some quality control and turnaround times become much more protracted.

And not everyone bought Hellboy. I know for a fact that stuff is still backstocked infi... even Galactus Giant Sized... and that has MEX cards AND PA and Omni.

It really comes down to numbers... regardless of the IP or engine.

Everyone who thinks they know how to save Vs. needs to read your posts. If the situation was as simple as a lot of people seem to think it is, Upper Deck would have saved Vs. a long time ago.

Sure,

however, I believe that VS's marketing strategies are hampered by what they can/can't do with Marvel/DC's IP. It both a blessing and curse all in one. You know they have to start out using both of the big 2's IP but in doing so you pay a severe price in whatever undisclosed overhead must be paid.

Therein for me lies the big problem: as a business man, I don't understand how, what, when or why Marvel or DC never used their comic books to promote VS. Therein is your marketing to masses, your access to numbers that surpass anything that Yugioh and Pokemon could ever muster ... yet WOW and other non comic book related get front page coverage as it were... I'm selling product that promotes your IP but,...

Incredible

VS did'nt lack marketing saviness, it was denied access.

Your being honest, so will I: playing with the big 2 seems cruel as hell man. For real...

Yeah, sales are slow indeed. Nevertheless, it (VS) is still a niche that needs to be continually explored.
Emotions aside is correct, but I still see oppurtunity for VS to grow in sales: we just needed access to the product - which could'nt be produced because the previous sales were low - which was affected by lack of marketing - yeah...

Lets try comic book publishing companies that will promote the game of VS in their comics before we make VS a niche game.

So the question is: What makes VS; The comic book characters, or the game engine, yeah?

Believe me man: I'm as addicted a comic book fan as the next fanboy. On monday I hate a particular writer, but come Wednesday I'm in trouble. That being said I do have some conviction - more or less. If VS were to go down, I feel it would be unfair, unreightous, maybe even punkish for me not to let Marvel and DC know that I blame them just as much as I do anyone else.

We are discussing rightly Eric and I do appreciate this. yeah, absolutely...
Open discussions, posts, chats or what have you are good in many ways; Moreso, they allow the user to declare his or her mind with an accuracy that may not be present if the parties in question were face to face.

It is all about the numbers in the end. However, I do still think that the promotion of one's own IP does have something to say concerning the positive affect of those numbers. I would have to think that that is undeniable reasoning and solid judgement.

Like I said man, under no circumstance can I let Marvel and DC off easily if VS goes under. That would have be it for me buying comic books... would I go the movies to see something related to comics: absolutely. would I buy another comic book from one of the big 2: hell no

Speaking honestly, VS has gotta find comic book publishing companies that support their IP enough to support the game of VS. One way relationship suck...

Now you got it baby

I vote for the engine.

Silkmane

You're speculating. From what I understand, Marvel doesn't care much as long as the check clears and you don't show Spider-man marrying Wolverine. DC is more restrictive. I've heard stories that they interfered a little with DOR. For example, they didn't want Lock-up on the Arkham Inmates because he was never locked up in Arkham. Stuff like that.

On the other hand, I hear DC worked with Upper Deck more. They provided info on Infinite Crisis before it was published. And, by the way, UDE paid them back by putting out the set before the last issue of Infinite Crisis shipped. And the set contained spoilers including the identity of the new Flash. Up until then, this was a big secret in the DCU. And it was reveled in Vs, not the comics. I hear DC was steamed.

Actually, I believe both companies had free Vs. cards inserts in some of their issues. I specifically remember DC including Batman cards in some of their comics.

You ask me, that was above and beyond.

Why would either publisher have any obligation to sell Vs? Just because Upper Deck licensed their characters, that doesn't mean they need to sell Vs for them. If Upper Deck wasnted to advertise in comics, that's up to them. Not DC and Marvel. They rely on that advertising income to stay profitable. They can't give away ad paged to help out a third party that pays them a licensing fee.


What were they denied?

Unless you know something I don't, Upper Deck wasn't denied anything. The success or failure of Vs lies squarely on their shoulders.

As an armchair quaterback with hindsight, it sure looks to me like UDE set about a bad marketing plan from day 1. In my opinion, marketing the game to Pros so heavily is what got us where we are today.

I totally understand your point of view. I've gone over this with Kariggi a few times too. I don't think this was truly the case. I'm not sure how many people can remember back to 2003/2004 but VS was heavily advertised in comic books AND gaming magazines.

But the other side of this equation is retention. VS is not an easy game for mass market... the average comic book buyer would rather spend time sorting their back issues, re-reading titles to look for Skrull hints or blogging about why Batman got screwed. People bought VS in the beginning... but that's where it stopped. The VS play scene was way too competitive and to be really good at the game to be able to win money... took too much time and energy. PCQs allowing already Q'ed players dissuaded many hopefuls.

WoW, on the other hand, has a built in sales incentive... the loot card. In addition, the consumer base for it is as big if not bigger than comic book readers (and may be a superset of). While their tournament scene is not all that more successful, they have qualification pass downs which keeps non-Qed players going.

In addition, Blizzard is more invested in UDE's products than Marvel/DC were. They modify their game with UDE's product in mind. Marvel did put AltArt Marvel VS cards into their comic books at one time (and even into action figures), but the level of interaction is way higher with Blizzard.

However... even granted full-blown access... I'm not convinced that history would have been any different because there were many other things in play that prevented VS from growing.
Comic books themselves are a niche. While the properties are mainstream... the actual products are still sold to a limited market. How many kids do you know actually read comics? Aren't they just playing DS, surfing the internet, playing the latest M-rated [Insert Console Game Here] game or watching TV? Even superhero cartoons on TV are still lower in ratings than many anime-based shows.

You probably don't want to hear this but VS became a niche game years ago. The IP is niche, the industry is niche, the engine is niche. You can't wish it into something it is not.

The goal is how to make it popular enough in its niche for it to continue.

I have stated similar things on more than one occasion. The game engine is so versatile that I don't see why don't have more indy comic stuff, or even non-comic stuff already. It can be used to do just about anything!

I don't think I would play if it was about some lame sauce characters.

For me, the CCG triumvirate of awesomeness is:

Engine
OP
Flavor

If you take the flavor out of it, I'm not sure there's any rationale not to play MTG instead...

flavor is needed, im with bear on this.

IMO VS is able to exist without DC or Marvel. If the game still exists...why not?