Please correct me if I'm wrong, my friend. If I have you right, you're interested in the continued growth of the game. You're concerned the naysayers on the way out will burn it down for potential newbies coming in. Your position is to continue the game, in any form, so we have a game to continue.

If I have it right, I get that. Some heroclix is better than none heroclix. Where i disagree is the "any form" portion. I'm trying to voice that the game is already over. Heroclix is dead, long live heroclix. But what's being carried on is heroclix in name only (clearly, ymmv). I'm unwilling to be a hype man for a game that's killed and supplanted my beloved game. Moreover, I'm unwilling to hype a game that I don't want to play.

I'm not trying to ruin heroclix going forward. I'm trying to communicate that wk already has. And I'm trying to articulate why, so that they can understand how they're burning me, at least. Just in case they care

Similarly, I think the 2021 'rules group' has made some hyperbolic changes to a game in areas that were (a) at the core of the game and (b) in some peculiar areas that I highly doubt anyone involved with organized play would have anticipated (or asked for).

IF there was a true desire to streamline/change rules: It would have been perfectly feasible for WK to do an 'open-beta test' of proposed rule changes, but instead they came up with this.

Most of the 'problems' described in the narrative posts rationalizing the rules changes don't strike me as problems with the rules! I could attribute all of the rules team's posted 'grievances' to:

• bad dial design
• out-of-control game add-ons (e.g. call-ins)
• bad map design
• poor/uninformed force construction
• bad/uniformed play for the constructed team

It's quite embarrassing to have someone in charge of a 20-year-old game that isn't good at it. It's even more detrimental to have that same person not understand it.

hear, hear!

very well-said

Hey guys, please don’t take any of this personally, I think you’re all swell people. Just trying to maintain some sense of decorum around here. It really is heartbreaking to see so many longtime Realmser friends being torn apart by these rules arguments. If I had one wish, it would be that at least that part would stop.

Again I'm not saying stop complaining or expressing yourselves, just maybe the Front Page isn't the best place. It’s no wonder so many new players are opting for other Social Media sites. Everybody is free to comment to their hearts content, keep the negativity coming if it genuinely makes you feel better.

What is it accomplishing though...? Those that have expressed their displeasure with the 2021 rules have done so already. At length. Multiple times. In multiple threads. It’s now come down to just the same 5 or 6 people reposting their same complaints. Over and over. You could quite literally cut and paste any of these certain individual’s posts, swap out the names, and it wouldn’t change a thing. It’s as if their only intention is to keep spreading their sour grapes, and won’t be satisfied until they poison everyone’s wine.

Adding our own negative emotional baggage to a topic only bogs down threads with pointless pessimism. We get it already, you don’t like the 2021 rules. What else do you have to add...? It shouldn’t be necessary to rehash the same complaint every single day. Who knows, you might be missing out on an insightful counterpoint, or the merit of your objections, all just because you couldn’t put petty resentments aside.

I honestly just miss the good old days of comradery and the feel good vibe this place had. That's it in a nutshell. Oh, and I still do and always will love Heroclix. Old product, current pieces, new figures and all. Look up folks, it’s not all doom and gloom, things will get better...!

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that my comments ruffled the feathers of the nay-slayer flock.

Let them hate, just make sure they spell my name right... "Harvey Spector"

(EDIT: P.S. I'm not directing my posts to you or anyone in particular, people can react if they feel it's calling to them )

Yeah we get that you don’t want to continue to play the game. Fine that’s your choice but quit trying to ruin it for people that might be trying to get into the game for the first time.
Or the people that don’t mind the changes.
If you hate everything so much move on.

Can you explain how the "sour grapes" analogy makes any sense in the context of this thread?

i'm addressing the information of this thread.

i'm not off topic. i'm talking about the new information that came out.

that mentality of "if you don't like it, be quiet" is how you get groupthink. if only the nodding-head-yes is heard, how surprising will it be that everything their focus groups of nodding-head-yes loved(!) is poorly received? old russian proverb: "silence equals consent."

and just because i didn't like a previously posted new rule doesn't mean i now have to like a newly posted new rule because i've used up all my not-likes. that doesn't make any sense ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

me, too

i hate how incredibly divisive these changes are

this is what happens when a company fundamentally alters the core identity of their game. they break up their fanbase and with changes this strong, it sets fan against fan. especially in a game that has survived based upon its rather small but tight community, especially since this is a social game especially in an era of social distancing, divisive decisions were a really, really bad business call

honestly, probably nothing.

i can only ever speak for myself, but i'm voicing my displeasure in the vain hopes that wk, upon hearing the vocal distaste in the changes will go, "whoops, our bad" and reverse course

however, they have demonstrated in the past (VD) that "we heard the fans" means slightly delaying the plan and then just doing it anyway

sadly, only if enough people are butthurt about it - and in actuality stop purchasing - will anything possibly be accomplished. back in the day, they were a company that would actually listen to their consumers. today's wk is tonedeaf and will only be swayed by the needle moving on their bottom line

Yeah, it feels like there is a line in the sand and some players are either firmly on the pro 2021 rule side or the anti-2021 rule side. I just want to stick out my bare foot and erase the line with my toes, so that everybody can get on the same page again. Probably just a pipe dream, but maybe with time people will gradually come to accept the rule changes, just fade away, or perhaps in the long run even convince Wizkids to change some of the rules back.

Sure. Sour Grapes is an idiom referring to "an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something because they cannot have it themselves."

In this case, using the current Heroclix circumstances we find ourselves in, many players cannot have the old Heroclix rules they have become accustomed to and have adopted a negative attitude. Some posters want to cling to the old rules so bad and will do anything for WizKids to bring them back. This certainly doesn't apply to everyone opposed to the 2021 rules, but there are enough of them out there.

Ok, I guess I get why you feel that way, but that's not the case. There are people in this very thread saying "I like this; I don't like that." Or "This is a good premise with bad implementation." Or "This is a faulty premise."

When you come in and generalize an entire conversation ("Guy’s it’s time to cancel the pity parties"), you create that line in the sand.

It goes both ways. Being told that positivity is annoying and that being pro Wizkids is comparable to certain offensive monikers creates a division too. I stand by my words, "pity parties" certainly can be applied to certain posts around here by certain individuals. As long as I can provoke responses and maybe get people to think, I feel I'm getting across and doing things right. It would be boring and dissuade conversation if we all thought the same way. I have nothing against anybody here and appreciate your feedback always Boltagon.

You are applying the term "sour grapes" incorrectly, because we actually HAD rules that were taken away from us.

Your counter-gripe is that the folks who are disappointed by announced changes should simply be apathetic and/or "suffer in silence".